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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Even though 5G is not generally available, Rivian should include 5G capability in vehicles to be delivered this summer. I certainly plan to have the R1T for years and during that time 5G should become more and more available. 5G is slated to be 100 times faster than 4G. See 5G vs 4G: what’s the difference? | Thales Group . Seems-out-of-line for a top-of-the-line vehicle to come with obsolescent technology.

A related concern:

The R1T will be my 2nd EV, the 1st being the Kia Niro EV. While I am generally pleased with the Kia, there is a big sore spot: over-the-air access. For the 1st year of ownership, all over-the-air services were free. After that, just 911 connect, maintenance reminder, remote charge controls (start/stop/levels). This is free for 5 years. I've attached a .pdf showing the missing services and the cost for getting them. Seems a bit much...

Wondering what services will be available from Rivian, which ones will be free, which ones will be a subscription, and what subscription costs might be.

Insights appreciated
 

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While 5G will be great to have at launch, Rivian is better off including it down the road as they step up autonomous tech features since it needs an improved network. When that happens, they'll have no choice but to make 5G a standard feature. I believe this is true for many other automakers.
 

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While 5G will be great to have at launch, Rivian is better off including it down the road as they step up autonomous tech features since it needs an improved network. When that happens, they'll have no choice but to make 5G a standard feature. I believe this is true for many other automakers.
I was told 4G option is standard. I dont know if it means standard for life or standard when delivered
 

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While 5G will be great to have at launch, Rivian is better off including it down the road as they step up autonomous tech features since it needs an improved network. When that happens, they'll have no choice but to make 5G a standard feature. I believe this is true for many other automakers.
My concern is if vehicle purchased in 21/22 can easily be retrofitted from 4g to 5g. It seems like something Rivian would address.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
My concern is if vehicle purchased in 21/22 can easily be retrofitted from 4g to 5g. It seems like something Rivian would address.
Phones that do not come 5g able will never be 5g able...if they are 5g compatible, they can work on 4g. I assume the same with the 'phone' built into the Rivian.
 

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Here is the response I got on chat. Sounds very vague and non-committal.
ME:I was wondering about the communication platform. The site says 4G and WiFi but I was wondering if the vehicle would be upgradable to 5G when that platform becomes available?
Rivian: With over the air updates, capabilities will expand as new technology is available
ME:For phones anyway, the 5g hardware is different than that of 4g. So I didn't know if this was the case with the vehicles or not.
Rivian:We'll share news of any updates as they become available. I can't confirm specifically to 5G in the future or not
ME:OK I'll keep checking. Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I doubt that this is a make or break issue for those of us in the queue, but maybe someone from Rivian is paying attention and thinking about it. Can't imagine that the marginal cost of providing 5g rather than 4g hardware would be more important than the image of a cutting edge vehicle being launched with an obsolescent technology.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
GM has sold upgrade kits to upgrade their Onstar systems in vehicles from 2G to 3G and then 3G to LTE. So there is a precedent for this to be possible.

Whether Rivian does it, or not, remains to be seen.
Well, hopefully an 'unplug the old, plug in the new will work...

BTW: the Amiga was pretty cool!
 

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I asked the question of 4G vs 5G back in early November and finally got a response from Rivian. As these vehicles are not starting to ship until mid 2021, why would you not future proof with 4G/5G now?

Here is Rivian’s response:

Thanks for your patience with this response, as this is far longer than we strive to return communications!

Our goal is to make Rivian's the best in class vehicle for our community, both in physical performance and with our technology inside the vehicle.

While we will be launching our R1T with 4G connectivity standard, our innovative over-the-air software updates will enable a consistent quality experience by always providing the most update to date features. We haven't announced too many details on our infotainment systems, but we look forward to sharing more information as we move closer to production!

We appreciate your support and feedback, Eric. If you have any other questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to reach out to our teams again!

Have a safe new year,

Caitlin
 

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Heard 5G is super short range and therefore needs an antenna like every 500yards. Not completely sure that is true but it sounds like 5G will be most advantageous for the city dwellers. Steve
 

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Heard 5G is super short range and therefore needs an antenna like every 500yards. Not completely sure that is true but it sounds like 5G will be most advantageous for the city dwellers. Steve
This depends on the frequency band of the service in your area. 5G can run on a wide range of frequencies.

If a carrier uses a low-band, such as 700MHz, then 5G can have excellent penetration into buildings -- useful in urban environments.

5G is also capable of running in microwave bands, where a single tower can cover several miles in all directions. This is useful for rural areas and highways, where user density is less, so you want to cover more area with less infrastructure.

Finally, there's mmWave, which can achieve the fastest speeds, but it has a short effective range and the signal is easily attenuated. This is the service often talked about where "micro-cell" towers are installed on street lamp posts. The signal doesn't travel into buildings or cars. It's main use is for busy street corners (think Times Square) or sporting events, where you have a LOT of users concentrated in one area, and can have line-of-sight between the device and the tower.

A good wireless strategy would involve deploying all three bands, depending on the needs of each location.
 

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Honestly what would it need 5G for over 4G/LTE? You can already stream hi-def movies on LTE's bandwidth and it's much more widespread than 5G. I certainly understand wanting the latest and greatest tech, but I'm not sold on the idea that 5G would yield any appreciable benefits for a car. You need map/traffic info and streaming audio, both of which are hardly a blip for 4G/LTE right now. You can still push a lot more data on current tech.
 

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Even though 5G is not generally available, Rivian should include 5G capability in vehicles to be delivered this summer. I certainly plan to have the R1T for years and during that time 5G should become more and more available. 5G is slated to be 100 times faster than 4G. See 5G vs 4G: what’s the difference? | Thales Group . Seems-out-of-line for a top-of-the-line vehicle to come with obsolescent technology.

A related concern:

The R1T will be my 2nd EV, the 1st being the Kia Niro EV. While I am generally pleased with the Kia, there is a big sore spot: over-the-air access. For the 1st year of ownership, all over-the-air services were free. After that, just 911 connect, maintenance reminder, remote charge controls (start/stop/levels). This is free for 5 years. I've attached a .pdf showing the missing services and the cost for getting them. Seems a bit much...

Wondering what services will be available from Rivian, which ones will be free, which ones will be a subscription, and what subscription costs might be.

Insights appreciated
My iPhone automatically finds which signal is strongest and uses that signal, 4G, LTE or 5G
 

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Unless they change between now and release, the web page says they have WiFi and 4G they have no mention of supporting 5G at this time.

1806


1807
 

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Honestly what would it need 5G for over 4G/LTE? You can already stream hi-def movies on LTE's bandwidth and it's much more widespread than 5G. I certainly understand wanting the latest and greatest tech, but I'm not sold on the idea that 5G would yield any appreciable benefits for a car. You need map/traffic info and streaming audio, both of which are hardly a blip for 4G/LTE right now. You can still push a lot more data on current tech.
Today, 4G LTE is sufficient. The benefit to 5G, imo, is there may be a time when 4G services are taken offline, but 5G may still be supported. If that occurs, the vehicle may lose cloud connectivity when outside of WiFi range.

Since vehicles may last 10-20 years, we need to be cognizant of how aging technology will affect the usefulness of the vehicle.
 

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Today, 4G LTE is sufficient. The benefit to 5G, imo, is there may be a time when 4G services are taken offline, but 5G may still be supported. If that occurs, the vehicle may lose cloud connectivity when outside of WiFi range.

Since vehicles may last 10-20 years, we need to be cognizant of how aging technology will affect the usefulness of the vehicle.
That is always a possibility. 3G came out in 1998 and AT&T is just planning to remove support for it Feb/2022. Since 4G started in 2008, my guess is it will be around for another 10 years or more. There are a lot of phones that came out (still coming out) that do not yet support 5G.

Some of us with older Teslas that only supported 3G (like my 2016) will be running into this very shortly. My understanding is Tesla has an upgrade from 3G to 4G but I have not looked into it yet, may have to now since Tesla is using the AT&T infrastructure.

In the interim, you can always connect to your phones as a hotspot to the vehicle and get the access from there. That is what I will do if I need to before I look into the 4G upgrade.


*** Update - Contacted Tesla, found out that they actually started putting LTE hardware in the Model S back in early 2015 just initially was not enabled. I did not notice at some point it was enabled and the vehicle is already connecting to LTE.... One of the benefits of OTA updates although better notes on what is in each update would be very helpful.
 

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Honestly... what will a 5G + WiFi on your truck will offer that taking your Samsung or iPhone 5G phone and switching the "HotSpot" toggle from "Off" to "On" won't?

I've had several vehicles with onboard WiFi, I have yet to be enthralled by it:
  1. You have no idea what carrier they will use and where the deadzones will be (let alone, how ell it will work where you live and drive).
  2. Datacaps?
  3. Data transfer speeds (how many devices can it support at what speeds)?
  4. It generally costs more then the "HotSpot Sharing" plan you would get from your own carrier (even Tesla decided to start charging for data that is used to stream Spotify and such in them with the exception of legacy S's and X's). It might be free, but I wouldn't bet on it, data costs $$$.
  5. As the thread above notes, there is no way to upgrade (where as I upgrade my phone every couple years) and depending on what band(s) of 5G they are on, they may have bet on the wrong horse.
 

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Car cell plans tend to get better connectivity, in my experience. The antenna is mounted on the exterior of the vehicle and up high, so you get better signal — and even some signal when the phone inside the vehicle may have none.

Many phones/carriers cannot make/receive phone calls when the hotspot is active or the phone is actively using data. Using a vehicle hotspot allows the phone to be used as a phone. This is also why I have an iPad with a SIM card — so I can use data and still make/receive calls on my phone.

Data caps are unknown, since we don’t know what the plans look like. AT&T is the most popular carrier for US autos, and they do offer unlimited plans. Some brands, such as Volvo, leave their car modems unlocked, so you can use any sim card you want, from any carrier.

Details on speeds/devices are up to Rivian…. In vehicles I’ve owned, I’ve seen as few as 5 devices supported, and up to 30+. Speed is whatever the carrier can support.

It doesn’t make sense for everyone…. But vehicle hotspots do have their place.
 
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