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I have deposits on the R1T and the lightning. I’d much prefer to buy a Rivian to support a “good” company and for the trucks unbelievable capabilities. The bottom line is that I need something that can tow my boat with reasonable range. I’m waiting on the Max Pack R1T which seemed to be the clear winner for range. Yesterday I was reading that Ford dramatically underestimated their range and the large pack has a range more like 450+ when not loaded down or towing. Anyone have any thoughts on this or heard anything similar or dissimilar?
 

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correct, lighting with the extended range can hit i think 487 miles, there epa they list which is the 300 ish range is with 1000 pounds of payload
Has this been confirmed? There is no way 1,000 lbs of onboard payload would result in a loss of 40% range. Something is not adding up in those numbers.

Not only that, but that would put the Lightning in a category above everything besides Lucid. That seems highly unlikely out of a 131 kw battery pack in a full size truck.
 

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Anyone have any thoughts on this or heard anything similar or dissimilar?
If you already have a tow vehicle, you already have a pretty good idea about how towing your boat with your driving style and your typical route affects your range.

The effect of these on the range of the R1T will be roughly the same as on your current ICE vehicle because most of the range reduction is caused by greatly increased aerodynamic drag (which varies by velocity squared) and by the inertia of your trailer+load, which needs to be overcome when accelerating/decelerating. This is why driving style (speed and acceleration habits), route, and specific load matter A LOT when talking about towing range.

The only real difference between ICE vehicles and EVs for this purpose is the amount of energy you get back via regenerative braking, which will be less if your trailer has brakes that dissipate energy, thus somewhat decreasing the EV range while towing vs. the ICE.

My current adventure vehicle goes 250 miles on a tank of gas, more or less. I haven't ever had a problem with that. But if you're routinely being limited by your gas tank capacity in your ICE tow vehicle, then I imagine you'll also have problems with a Rivian.
 

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Tesla is the only one that boast's exaggerated rated range figures based on the best of the best of the best possible conditions. Almost nobody in Tesla gets the real world range out of it. Tesla doesn't pay for marketing, so they pull tricks like that to generate buzz. Has worked very well for them. Yay to them. But, better range rating for a Tesla would be take what they say, calculate about 75% of that, and you'll be fairly close if you drive reasonably unaggressive. Ford on the other hand, including several other EV makers, choose to underestimate and surprise later when owners see much better results in the real world. Ford's 300 battery with no load, will likely be in the 350-400 mile range! maybe $425+ if in perfect weather. Porsche, Audi, Chevy, all end up keeping their customers happy because they can achieve rated range in normal conditions. Tesla forums are the only ones where you get 10 people asking daily "what happed to my range?". "What's wrong with my car?". etc. They're also the only one that doesn't provide range variations based on your driving stile, where you're going , etc. Same algorithm used every time. Pretty much useless. I just leave in on Percentage reading and treat it like a gas gauge. That way I'm not annoyed every day when I charge t0 300 miles in range, drive 30-40 miles and pull in the garage with 200 miles of range left. I like the way every other ev maker on the plant uses predictive algorithms to provide you with more realistic range figures that you'll actually achieve in daily driving.

OK, that got long. point being, don't take range figures as gospel. They can been useless in a large majority of cases. Research real world tests. I hope Rivian didn't follow the same Tesla approach. sounds like they didn't adn we'll have predictive range estimates that you can actually rely on.
 

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Rivian R1T (Adventure - CR, BM, 21", Ordered 10/5/2021, Delivered 6/24/2022), Suburban 2500, VW ID.4
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I don't see how the Ford will get 400+ miles on 131kw/h vs 135 for the Rivian
It won't. That high figure was speculation based on what someone found on one of the screens before Ford disabled the range estimate from showing. The claim that Ford got their 300 miles range with 1000 lb payload may be true, and would be good if it does, but that doesn't equal 400+ without it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Tesla is the only one that boast's exaggerated rated range figures based on the best of the best of the best possible conditions. Almost nobody in Tesla gets the real world range out of it. Tesla doesn't pay for marketing, so they pull tricks like that to generate buzz. Has worked very well for them. Yay to them. But, better range rating for a Tesla would be take what they say, calculate about 75% of that, and you'll be fairly close if you drive reasonably unaggressive. Ford on the other hand, including several other EV makers, choose to underestimate and surprise later when owners see much better results in the real world. Ford's 300 battery with no load, will likely be in the 350-400 mile range! maybe $425+ if in perfect weather. Porsche, Audi, Chevy, all end up keeping their customers happy because they can achieve rated range in normal conditions. Tesla forums are the only ones where you get 10 people asking daily "what happed to my range?". "What's wrong with my car?". etc. They're also the only one that doesn't provide range variations based on your driving stile, where you're going , etc. Same algorithm used every time. Pretty much useless. I just leave in on Percentage reading and treat it like a gas gauge. That way I'm not annoyed every day when I charge t0 300 miles in range, drive 30-40 miles and pull in the garage with 200 miles of range left. I like the way every other ev maker on the plant uses predictive algorithms to provide you with more realistic range figures that you'll actually achieve in daily driving.

OK, that got long. point being, don't take range figures as gospel. They can been useless in a large majority of cases. Research real world tests. I hope Rivian didn't follow the same Tesla approach. sounds like they didn't adn we'll have predictive range estimates that you can actually rely on.
Interesting. With EV’s as tow vehicles maybe trailer surge brakes will be a thing of the past.
 

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If you already have a tow vehicle, you already have a pretty good idea about how towing your boat with your driving style and your typical route affects your range.

The effect of these on the range of the R1T will be roughly the same as on your current ICE vehicle because most of the range reduction is caused by greatly increased aerodynamic drag (which varies by velocity squared) and by the inertia of your trailer+load, which needs to be overcome when accelerating/decelerating. This is why driving style (speed and acceleration habits), route, and specific load matter A LOT when talking about towing range.

The only real difference between ICE vehicles and EVs for this purpose is the amount of energy you get back via regenerative braking, which will be less if your trailer has brakes that dissipate energy, thus somewhat decreasing the EV range while towing vs. the ICE.

My current adventure vehicle goes 250 miles on a tank of gas, more or less. I haven't ever had a problem with that. But if you're routinely being limited by your gas tank capacity in your ICE tow vehicle, then I imagine you'll also have problems with a Rivian.
You are way over stating any benefit at all for regen . How many times do,I need to say this, there is no gain at all except depending on your SOC and if your costing down a mountain. Even then it’s minimal. regular driving or towing… forget about it.
 

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"way overstating"? How so? I said that if you had a trailer with brakes, you would be throwing away some of the regen, so the energy you would get back from regenerative braking would be "less" which would "somewhat decrease" your range.

All true, not quantitative at all, and in no way did I imply that this is a significant factor compared to drag and inertia (which I claimed accounted for "most" of the range reduction). Just the opposite, I minimized the effect that loss of "some" of the regen has on range.

The whole point of the post was to say that the range loss when towing with an EV is going to be pretty much the same as the range loss with the ICE vehicle - there's nothing mysterious about EVs that make them significantly better or worse at towing.
 

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"way overstating"? How so? I said that if you had a trailer with brakes, you would be throwing away some of the regen, so the energy you would get back from regenerative braking would be "less" which would "somewhat decrease" your range.

All true, not quantitative at all, and in no way did I imply that this is a significant factor compared to drag and inertia (which I claimed accounted for "most" of the range reduction). Just the opposite, I minimized the effect that loss of "some" of the regen has on range.

The whole point of the post was to say that the range loss when towing with an EV is going to be pretty much the same as the range loss with the ICE vehicle - there's nothing mysterious about EVs that make them significantly better or worse at towing.
Fair enough. Just so we understand each other, regen breaking is a form of slowing the car down without using the normal fricken brakes. It’s does not ‘’add’’ range to your truck.
 

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Fair enough. Just so we understand each other, regen breaking is a form of slowing the car down without using the normal fricken brakes. It’s does not ‘’add’’ range to your truck.
That is not correct. At least in an any of the EV's I've driven over the past 10 years. If you coast down a 5 mile hill, using Regen all the way down, you absolutely gain range back. Regen is charging the battery, just as if you plugged it in, just from a different source. In any case, if you coast far enough, you WILL add range back to the vehicle.
 

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It’s does not ‘’add’’ range to your truck.
And again, I did not say that. I said that using the brakes on the trailer will lessen the amount of energy you recover from regenerative braking, thus "somewhat reducing" your range while towing.

An EV with regenerative brakes will have a greater range than an EV without, because regenerative braking recovers some fraction of the energy that was originally expended to accelerate the EV. The fraction of energy recovered will be lower when some of the braking is done by dissipative brakes on the trailer.
 

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And again, I did not say that. I said that using the brakes on the trailer will lessen the amount of energy you recover from regenerative braking, thus "somewhat reducing" your range while towing.

An EV with regenerative brakes will have a greater range than an EV without, because regenerative braking recovers some fraction of the energy that was originally expended to accelerate the EV. The fraction of energy recovered will be lower when some of the braking is done by dissipative brakes on the trailer.
Yea no. Sorry.
‘’I dont care how you rephrase it.
Regen will. Or add anything to your range meter. If we can agree on this one point. It’s a win win
 

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That is not correct. At least in an any of the EV's I've driven over the past 10 years. If you coast down a 5 mile hill, using Regen all the way down, you absolutely gain range back. Regen is charging the battery, just as if you plugged it in, just from a different source. In any case, if you coast far enough, you WILL add range back to the vehicle.
Geez. normal driving on the freeway or streets - Regen does nothing. Nothing.

if your going down a long mountain road, you will pick up some range depending on your SOC straying out. It’s not much.
for me.… going From 5200 feet to zero I can pick up 10-15 miles of range. That’s true. Coasting all the way down. It’s gone in a flash when the road zeros out.

thats it. You will not pick up range towing, you will not pick up range on the freeway and nit on the streets. Ever.
 

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Yea no. Sorry.
‘’I dont care how you rephrase it.
Regen will. Or add anything to your range meter. If we can agree on this one point. It’s a win win
I assume you meant to say "Regen will not add anything to your range meter"

You don't seem to understand what regen is - it's not just a fancy brake.

An electric motor can work two ways:
  1. As a motor, it can take electrical energy and change it into mechanical energy to push your vehicle forward, or
  2. As a generator, it can take mechanical energy and change it into electrical energy to charge your battery.
It is that second mode that we call regenerative braking - it will generate electricity, and in doing so will slow the truck down as it uses up some of the truck's momentum to generate the electricity.

The generated electricity goes straight back into your battery, adding to the amount of energy stored there.

As I said, you only get back a fraction of the energy, but you do get energy back. So your vehicle will travel further with regenerative braking that without. It's like one of those cash-back credit cards - you spend a lot of money but you get a few percent back, so you can buy more with the cash-back card than you could without. I never implied that the balance on the card would keep going down as you spend more. That's just silly.
 
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