[Cactus]

2023 BMW iX M60 vs. 2022 Rivian R1S Launch Edition

These six-figure electric SUVs are the latest in mega-powerful peacocking.

www.caranddriver.com

Questions:

• Why is the BMW so much more efficient?
• Any early R1S owners care to weigh-in on the handling complaints: "Steering is out of step with chassis"
• What about other issues C&D noticed: Float, front-to-rear porpoising, head toss and tire impact noise?
• Are these fixable with software updates to suspension and steering, or are they purely mechanical engineering problems?
• Is top speed 111mph or 125mph?
• I don't get the comment: "My 30 year old ski boat gets on plane faster"

BMW has been building cars for a long time. Let's hope Rivian at least learns how to at least seal the vehicle against water leaks. Might help with wind noise too...

As a Sept 2019 reservation holder, I'm trying to remain enthusiastic.

 

[RITVT]

I would take all of these reviews with a big fat grain of salt. For every positive review there will be a negative one, and vice versa. Just read this forum. LOL.

They're also comparing a 7 passenger off-road capable SUV to a 5 passenger, less off-road capable BMW. Efficiency and range test can change with weather, wind, roads, etc. Lots of variables there. Both of these vehicles are top of the line though.

(edit, looks like the ran the R1S on 22's)

 

[EVRider]

The "plane" comment is probably due to the R1S' nose coming up during acceleration and the suspension not adjusting very fast during acceleration. Just a guess.

 

[Cactus]

I would take all of these reviews with a big fat grain of salt. For every positive review there will be a negative one, and vice versa. Just read this forum. LOL.

They're also comparing a 7 passenger off-road capable SUV to a 5 passenger, less off-road capable BMW. Efficiency and range test can change with weather, wind, roads, etc. Lots of variables there. Both of these vehicles are top of the line though.

(edit, looks like the ran the R1S on 22's)

Right. It's well-known that C&D favors certain vehicle manufacturers (they sure hate Tesla!), but this was a head-to-head comparison of the closest competitors they had available. Until Land Rover makes a fully electric competitor, comparisons will be difficult. None-the-less, there were some objective measures.

 

[ColeAK]

Just goes to show that there are going to be a lot of options soon’ish in this space and companies like BMW have way more experience, resources, and support than the new comers like Rivian and Tesla.

None of these options will be the end all for everyone and more choices are a good thing.

 

[Cactus]

Just goes to show that there are going to be a lot of options soon’ish in this space and companies like BMW have way more experience, resources, and support than the new comers like Rivian and Tesla.

None of these options will be the end all for everyone and more choices are a good thing.

Yes, that's why I hope Rivian can work on their manufacturing issues. Soon, other vehicle manufacturers that have been assembling cars for ~80-100 years will have battery and software tech which will put them on equal footing with Rivian (and Tesla) in that department. Then if the newbies (Rivian and Tesla) don't learn to assemble their vehicles properly, they may become marginalized.

 

[iansriv]

Or legacy systems & processes will drag them down vs the new kids.

 

[Cactus]

Or legacy systems & processes will drag them down vs the new kids.

Evidently not BMW. The iX is more efficient than the Rivian in C&D's 75mph testing. It has a smaller battery but demonstrated longer range (290mi at 75mph). That's weird because most on this forum indicate the range is much better than the 230mi C&D reported.

 

[ColeAK]

Or legacy systems & processes will drag them down vs the new kids.

I think we already saw this happen over the last ~10 years since the model S was released. I think most have come to their senses that battery EVs are here to stay (at least for a while).

 

[trevtremaine]

It's kind of like watching the end of "Cars" when the Hummer complains about getting his rims dirty - you wouldn't dare take the BMW off road. I'll take the R1S off road in a heart beat - heck, give it the equivalent of AutoPilot, it might just jump in on it's own.

Odds are that C&D received a nice paycheck from BMW via ads and such so feel that making rather offbeat comparisons is about the only way they could slant it to make the BMW the winner. With that schnoz, BMW wins the rhinoplasty award for "Most in need of a redesign". Having read the running commentary, it's pretty clear most of those responders are BMWphiles - it's also clear they have zero understanding of the differences. Myopic stance at best given one even said that they like the BMW front end.

 

[ColeAK]

It's kind of like watching the end of "Cars" when the Hummer complains about getting his rims dirty - you wouldn't dare take the BMW off road. I'll take the R1S off road in a heart beat - heck, give it the equivalent of AutoPilot, it might just jump in on it's own.

Odds are that C&D received a nice paycheck from BMW via ads and such so feel that making rather offbeat comparisons is about the only way they could slant it to make the BMW the winner. With that schnoz, BMW wins the rhinoplasty award for "Most in need of a redesign". Having read the running commentary, it's pretty clear most of those responders are BMWphiles - it's also clear they have zero understanding of the differences. Myopic stance at best given one even said that they like the BMW front end.

With 20” rims the R1S will not be much more capable off road then the BMW. I wouldn’t risk taking either on more then a dirt road.

 

[Angus]

I was curious about the claimed 230 range, especially since out of spec did a 70mph test and got over 280 miles. The extra 5 mph would surely make a difference, but is it really that drastic?

 

[RITVT]

With 20” rims the R1S will not be much more capable off road then the BMW. I wouldn’t risk taking either on more then a dirt road.

Dirt road? LOL. Even you can't be serious with this one. There are many reasons why the R1S is already more capable off-road. Maybe its not a modd'ed out rock crawler with 16" rims and ginormous monster truck tires, but it has already been proven capable in a variety of challenging situations off-road - situations where the BMW would struggle or simply fail. Come on.

 

[ColeAK]

Dirt road? LOL. Even you can't be serious with this one. There are many reasons why the R1S is already more capable off-road. Maybe its not a modd'ed out rock crawler with 16" rims and ginormous monster truck tires, but it has already been proven capable in a variety of challenging situations off-road - situations where the BMW would struggle or simply fail. Come on.

Pinch flat on rocks are a real concern, I would say even more so in a ~7k lb truck. My 2013 LX 570 came OEM with 20’s, I negotiated in a set of AT tires and rolled with them. In the first summer I got stuck in the sand and had a pinch flat on a pot hole. The next spring I switched to 17’s, 8 summers later (knock on wood) I haven’t had a flat on trail and have not been stuck in the sand.

With all the trucks that come with 20”+ see flats all the time on forest service roads in the fall during hunting season, I see 3-4 every fall here in Alaska where there are very few people. Last fall come to think of it the only other trucks I saw on trails were stopped with a pinch flat. This is why range rovers and AMG G wagons are also completely useless off road as well.

I’ll admit I’m the kind of person that leans to over preparedness, and greatly favor function over form. Probably because I’ve spent a lot of time over the last >40 years in very remote and extreme environments all over the world, my time in service, my dad and grandfather hammering in me the 7p’s, and learning from mistakes.

people will probably be ok at a local off road park in an urban city where AAA can easily save them or on the easier trails on smooth rock areas like the SW US, much of Moab is like driving on hilly sandpaper. Any area with Soft sand, rocks much larger than a softball, and mud will be a no go. Given my experience No way I would feel comfortable out in the backcountry or even on any of our remote “highways” (Dalton, Steese, Taylor, McCarthy, Dempster,…) up here on 20’s

Just like in all driving scenarios tires are the most important factor: ground clearance, approach/departure/break-over angles, lockers, 4-motors,…. All don’t matter with inappropriate wheels/tires.

 

[RITVT]

But those other characteristics do matter, because to your point, not all off-roading looks the same. In fact, for some people "off-roading" may be as simple as rolling sand dunes and beaches to go surf or fish (for example) where there will be ZERO pinch flats from rocks. I would much rather be in a 7 passenger off-road capable R1S than a 5 passenger BMW crossover where I go.

 

[ColeAK]

But those other characteristics do matter, because to your point, not all off-roading looks the same. In fact, for some people "off-roading" may be as simple as rolling sand dunes and beaches to go surf or fish (for example) where there will be ZERO pinch flats from rocks. I would much rather be in a 7 passenger off-road capable R1S than a 5 passenger BMW crossover where I go.

Sand, need to be able to air down and create a larger footprint. 20’s do not give much sidewall to air down for sand. See above, when I had 20’s on my LX I couldn’t get enough tire footprint for sand and my LX is ~700 lbs lighter than the R1T. Where I subsistence fish salmon from the beach I see many trucks on larger rims stuck every summer. The best Sand tires are high volume with no tread.

some sand maybe ok. I spent ~6 months in central FL and back then everyone drove on the beach with no issues. Our sand up here is brutally soft, I run 15-20 PSI, many people run <10 psi with bead locks.

 

[Stickypvmt]

I have test drove the iX M60. it is a very good road driving machine. We owned a few BMW over the years and currently still have one. There is no doubt they have suspension dialing part down.

but...I have not driven the R1S. Only had the chance to test drive the R1T. My R1S is not coming for over a year ....So I hope if there is any suspension setup issue, they would have a chance to tune it during this time with those adjustable air shocks and damper. The R1T I drove had the AT tires. My opinion is that will put a dent for on road performance. The truck drives well as a stiff truck like suspension. But not a canyon road carver...and I didn't expected it to be.

The iX has only 8.8" of clearance. Tho that is pretty good for a crossover type SUV. The R1S and T has tremendous clearance advantage if it is taken off road. But I really hope it isn't as bad as they have described for road driving. I really hope their suspension is as capable of handling on pavement as off pavement.

 

[thebishman]

I have test drove the iX M60. it is a very good road driving machine. We owned a few BMW over the years and currently still have one. There is no doubt they have suspension dialing part down.

but...I have not driven the R1S. Only had the chance to test drive the R1T. My R1S is not coming for over a year ....So I hope if there is any suspension setup issue, they would have a chance to tune it during this time with those adjustable air shocks and damper. The R1T I drove had the AT tires. My opinion is that will put a dent for on road performance. The truck drives well as a stiff truck like suspension. But not a canyon road carver...and I didn't expected it to be.

The iX has only 8.8" of clearance. Tho that is pretty good for a crossover type SUV. The R1S and T has tremendous clearance advantage if it is taken off road. But I really hope it isn't as bad as they have described for road driving. I really hope their suspension is as capable of handling on pavement as off pavement.

I am surprised that Rivian chose to shorten the wheelbase as much as they did for the R1S versus the R1T, and am wondering if that is the reason why there are reports of ill handling; noise noticeable from the rear of the cabin, etc. For many families the extra interior room would be very useful and since the R1T isn’t as big as a full size pick up, the R1S with the same wheelbase still would have fit in most garages I expect.

Hopefully the suspension programming can be sorted soon.

 

[Cactus]

I am surprised that Rivian chose to shorten the wheelbase as much as they did for the R1S versus the R1T, and am wondering if that is the reason why there are reports of ill handling; noise noticeable from the rear of the cabin, etc. For many families the extra interior room would be very useful and since the R1T isn’t as big as a full size pick up, the R1S with the same wheelbase still would have fit in most garages I expect.

And using a longer wheelbase might have made room for more batteries, hence longer range.

 

[racekarl]

I am surprised that Rivian chose to shorten the wheelbase as much as they did for the R1S versus the R1T,

I think it boils down to the idea that R1S is positioned to lure buyers who are more likely cross shopping vehicles like the XC90, EX90, Q7, et al, and not vehicles like the Tahoe or Expedition. The R1S as currently sized is closer to the former group, whereas an R1T wheelbase R1S would be sized more like the latter group.