[lynnewhelden]

Let's face it...the existing charging network in the US is atrocious. Located primarily along major highways. Half a dozen or less when you get there. Waiting in line.
The early adoptees justify the dismal state of affairs by saying, "Well, you do have to stop for 30 minutes to eat and relieve yourself." Thirty minutes? Twenty minutes? Even ten minutes is too long when you've got places to go.
Rivian's not very helpful. Apparently they plan to devote their resources to chargers in adventure points in out-of-way places only the young or crazy plan to visit.
Electrify America (VW's fines went there) is taking forever to roll out their network. Other third party options are a mess. Broken stalls, high fees, not conveniently located.
America's not ready for EV. How can the above facts convince the 95% who are happy with their ICE? America won't be ready until there's a dozen chargers at every gas station. I say "every." Otherwise small towns off the beaten track (read that, miles from any charger) will lose the tourist traffic. "Honey, do you want to visit Canton's Apple Cheese festival today?" "No, it's 200 miles from the closest charger. Let's stick with Cracker Barrel. It's just off the Interstate."

 

[NY_Rob]

As someone who's been driving EV since 2012... IMO EV's are not really well suited for single vehicle households in most cases. Fortunately, there are very few single vehicle households in America nowadays so if something's too far for the EV... take the ICE instead. I can't think of anyone I know where only one vehicle is available in the family.

I agree that the public charging infrastructure in America (except for Tesla) is a disjointed, dysfunctional mess. In that respect, we are quite literally the laughing stock of the world.

 

[Wing]

Don't worry you won't get your Rivian for another 3 years so the charging network should be better by then.

I kid I kid... kind of...

 

[Yossarian]

We're a single vehicle household with no plans to change, nor do we need that second car 99.9% of the time. We do need extended battery capacity both to tow a teardrop camper and because we spend a significant amount of time in very cold environs.

I'm pretty well convinced that the R1S Max we chose a year and a half ago to replace our Telluride won't be in our driveway until late 2023, and perhaps not even until 2024. I'm OK with the wait (kind of anyway) because that gives more time for the charging network to be built out. It also gives Rivian enough time to work out the production bugs and provide a quality vehicle that can function as our sole transportation.

If it turns out that, despite the very substantial financial boost that the infrastructure bill should provide, the charging network doesn't get built out as hoped, or if the range of R1S is disappointingly short, I will really have no choice but to continue with an ICE vehicle. I suspect that I'm not alone in this.

 

[Cactus]

Agree with OP. Tesla owners have been spoiled by an excellent supercharging network. I've been extra spoiled because my Feb 2014 Model S still gets free supercharging.

I once calculated that it would cost about $110 to drive our BMW 4 series from Phx to Dallas with gas cost at $3.50/gallon (yes, I know. gas is more expensive now). Then I calculated how much it would cost if I used Electrify America charging stations from Phx to Dallas in an EV. It was almost twice as much to drive on EA electrons as petrol, plus a time hit of an extra 2.5 hours (if fast charging was optimal).

This is just plain wrong. We should be incentivizing people to buy EVs by making charging less expensive than gas.

 

[ColeAK]

I’m in Alaska and going on 8 years with a Tesla. As of last weekend we have our first SC in the state. No EA, no destination chargers. Only place to really charge on the road is campgrounds. Prior to last weekend my closest SC was ~2400 miles away in BC. That said I drive the Tesla 90% of the time when Not towing our camper or off roading. Here in AK it would be difficult to own an EV as your only vehicle, although I know 2 families that do. In most places in the US outside of Alaska Tesla charging infrastructure is great.

I can’t imagine at some point Tesla won’t open it up to others.

 

[Yossarian]

Agree with OP. Tesla owners have been spoiled by an excellent supercharging network. I've been extra spoiled because my Feb 2014 Model S still gets free supercharging.

I once calculated that it would cost about $110 to drive our BMW 4 series from Phx to Dallas with gas cost at $3.50/gallon (yes, I know. gas is more expensive now). Then I calculated how much it would cost if I used Electrify America charging stations from Phx to Dallas in an EV. It was almost twice as much to drive on EA electrons as petrol, plus a time hit of an extra 2.5 hours (if fast charging was optimal).

This is just plain wrong. We should be incentivizing people to buy EVs by making charging less expensive than gas.

I hope that this is just an anomaly in the EA charging network and not what those of use presently driving ICE vehicles will experience once we switch to EV's.

If it's truly the case that charging costs for EV's other than Tesla will exceed that of fueling with gasoline, that alone would render an electric vehicle a non-starter for most. When you add in that most states will be insituting an EV tax to make up for lost gas tax revenues, and include the substantial acquisition cost differential for an EV, very few will be able to afford to abandon ICE vehicles for electric. At least that will be the case until fossil fuel becomes much more expensive than even the present inflated price.

 

[Wing]

But 99% of your charging will be at home. There are a few articles demonstrating it's more expensive than fuel on longer trips.

But you pay by time, the longer you sit the more it costs to recharge. Charging to 100% vs 80% is like 10x more expensive. I'd have to search but there is an article out there comparing the kona gas vs electric on a trip.

Charging the kona to full charge was something like $400 on their trip vs 100 for fuel! But charging the Kona to only 80% and making more stops had the charge at the same 100 as fuel.

 

[IThinkFreely]

Tesla has started a non-Tesla supercharger pilot program in the Netherlands. It will no doubt open one soon in the US before throwing open the entire network to non-Tesla. If nothing else this will generate $$$ for them. As someone who has had 2 Teslas for almost 5 years I have to say the sentiments expressed in the OP will be shared by a tiny fraction of EV owners. Charging at home is the MO for the vast majority of owners. If 'supercharging' on a trip is needed, the break is welcome - you're likely a couple hundred miles into the journey at that point (The wait times are temporary - the stations will get faster, the batteries more capable. The 5 minute, 500 mile charge is not that far away).

More importantly, there is a classic supply and demand issue in the OP. There simply is not a great need for a vast EV charging network yet. Eventually, every gas station in America will have charging stations. BP, Shell, Chevron, Exxon etc are not going to miss out on that little earner.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

But 99% of your charging will be at home. There are a few articles demonstrating it's more expensive than fuel on longer trips.

But you pay by time, the longer you sit the more it costs to recharge. Charging to 100% vs 80% is like 10x more expensive. I'd have to search but there is an article out there comparing the kona gas vs electric on a trip.

Charging the kona to full charge was something like $400 on their trip vs 100 for fuel! But charging the Kona to only 80% and making more stops had the charge at the same 100 as fuel.

This also depends on where you're at... Some regions charge by time, and others only charge by kWh.

 

[Cactus]

But 99% of your charging will be at home. There are a few articles demonstrating it's more expensive than fuel on longer trips.

But you pay by time, the longer you sit the more it costs to recharge. Charging to 100% vs 80% is like 10x more expensive. I'd have to search but there is an article out there comparing the kona gas vs electric on a trip.

Charging the kona to full charge was something like $400 on their trip vs 100 for fuel! But charging the Kona to only 80% and making more stops had the charge at the same 100 as fuel.

Yes, 99% of the time charging is at home where it can even be ultra-cheap in off-peak hours. But people don't think that way. They think, "what is my trip going to cost me in fuel" (electrons or petrol)? They don't average the cost of fuel over the course of a year.

 

[Yossarian]

But 99% of your charging will be at home. There are a few articles demonstrating it's more expensive than fuel on longer trips.

But you pay by time, the longer you sit the more it costs to recharge. Charging to 100% vs 80% is like 10x more expensive. I'd have to search but there is an article out there comparing the kona gas vs electric on a trip.

Charging the kona to full charge was something like $400 on their trip vs 100 for fuel! But charging the Kona to only 80% and making more stops had the charge at the same 100 as fuel.

I'm headed for retirement at the end of the year. We planned to use the R1S (Max) to tow our camper on various trips for three seasons and to travel to the mountains during the fourth. We do relatively little local driving (when I was in the office, I commuted by bicycle except in inclement weather), and probably 6 to 8 thousand of our 10k average annual mileage was from long trips. So upwards of 80% of my total annual mileage in an EV will require using public charging.

While the planned Rivian purchase is not based on saving money, if the cost of charging is a multiple of that for gasoline - which I really hope is not the case - we'll be driving a Telluride for the rest of the decade.

 

[RITVT]

Again, this is why a bunch of us have put solar on our homes. Not only is it better for the environment, not only does it off-set your electricity bill, not only does it lessen your dependence on 3rd parties, not only does it PAY YOU for KWH generated in some cases, BUT it can also power your Rivian. If you don't like planning a route or waiting for a charge when you are on a road trip, you are probably not the best persona for an EV early adopter. Stick to your ICE and we will work out the kinks.

 

[ColeAK]

I'm headed for retirement at the end of the year. We planned to use the R1S (Max) to tow our camper on various trips for three seasons and to travel to the mountains during the fourth. We do relatively little local driving (when I was in the office, I commuted by bicycle except in inclement weather), and probably 6 to 8 thousand of our 10k average annual mileage was from long trips. So upwards of 80% of my total annual mileage in an EV will require using public charging.

While the planned Rivian purchase is not based on saving money, if the cost of charging is a multiple of that for gasoline - which I really hope is not the case - we'll be driving a Telluride for the rest of the decade.

If you are going to be towing a camper chose sites with hookups and charge off 30/50a for no additional fee then that of your camp site.

 

[ColeAK]

I can’t imagine there is anywhere in the USA where home charging would cost more then fuel for an ICE. I pay a straight 0.24 per kWh. At that I’m at ~$50 to go ~300 miles. In my LX570 I’m currently at ~$85 to go ~300 miles.

I do have a 7kw solar system. Currently though (short days lots of snow) I’m producing almost nothing.

 

[ColeAK]

I can’t imagine there is anywhere in the USA where home charging would cost more then fuel for an ICE. I pay a straight 0.24 per kWh. At that I’m at ~$50 to go ~300 miles. In my LX570 I’m currently at ~$85 to go ~300 miles.

I do have a 7kw solar system. Currently though (short days lots of snow) I’m producing almost nothing.

Sorry I thought the Rivian battery was larger, at the 135 kw battery it would be more like ~$32 to go ~300 miles vs $85 given $3.99 (premium) a gallon in my LX

 

[O. horridus]

$0.082/kWh here, which means even cheaper to run an EV, but it also means payback on the solar is considerably longer ...

 

[eljeffe59.1]

Agree with OP. Tesla owners have been spoiled by an excellent supercharging network. I've been extra spoiled because my Feb 2014 Model S still gets free supercharging.

I once calculated that it would cost about $110 to drive our BMW 4 series from Phx to Dallas with gas cost at $3.50/gallon (yes, I know. gas is more expensive now). Then I calculated how much it would cost if I used Electrify America charging stations from Phx to Dallas in an EV. It was almost twice as much to drive on EA electrons as petrol, plus a time hit of an extra 2.5 hours (if fast charging was optimal).

This is just plain wrong. We should be incentivizing people to buy EVs by making charging less expensive than gas.

Please show us your calculations. I used an electrify America charger a couple of times and they charged PER MINUTE. Not per kWhr. I had a Chevy bolt at the time and it’s max charging rate was 35 kW, which quickly dropped to 15-20 KW. Basically useless and expensive. Thanks.

 

[NY_Rob]

$0.082/kWh here, which means even cheaper to run an EV, but it also means payback on the solar is considerably longer ...

Where is "here"?

"Here" in NY it's $0.23/kWh so payback on solar is from 5-7years normally.

 

[TessP100D]

Let's face it...the existing charging network in the US is atrocious. Located primarily along major highways. Half a dozen or less when you get there. Waiting in line.
The early adoptees justify the dismal state of affairs by saying, "Well, you do have to stop for 30 minutes to eat and relieve yourself." Thirty minutes? Twenty minutes? Even ten minutes is too long when you've got places to go.
Rivian's not very helpful. Apparently they plan to devote their resources to chargers in adventure points in out-of-way places only the young or crazy plan to visit.
Electrify America (VW's fines went there) is taking forever to roll out their network. Other third party options are a mess. Broken stalls, high fees, not conveniently located.
America's not ready for EV. How can the above facts convince the 95% who are happy with their ICE? America won't be ready until there's a dozen chargers at every gas station. I say "every." Otherwise small towns off the beaten track (read that, miles from any charger) will lose the tourist traffic. "Honey, do you want to visit Canton's Apple Cheese festival today?" "No, it's 200 miles from the closest charger. Let's stick with Cracker Barrel. It's just off the Interstate."

I agree 100%
This is why Tesla has such a big advantage. It’s big.

if Tesla does open ip their charging network then that will make it easier for Rivianowners.