[JimmyEV]

New spy photos are out of the F-150 EV. It now looks like the current F-150 rather than the previous gen.

 

[Sultanum]

My complaining about this is that EV companies like Tesla and Rivian spent a lot of time working on improving aerodynamics to increase efficiency. Now Ford goes and just keep the same ICE F-150 but with an EV platform under it. I can't imagine how that will work as well as a Tesla or Rivian (or any other EV that was designed as an EV from the get go). That is why I am so skeptical about it.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

My complaining about this is that EV companies like Tesla and Rivian spent a lot of time working on improving aerodynamics to increase efficiency. Now Ford goes and just keep the same ICE F-150 but with an EV platform under it. I can't imagine how that will work as well as a Tesla or Rivian (or any other EV that was designed as an EV from the get go). That is why I am so skeptical about it.

It probably won’t work as well as niche products... but there’s a lot of people who won’t consider an EV until big names like Ford do it — so it’s a net positive, even if it’s not your desired vehicle.

 

[azbill]

My complaining about this is that EV companies like Tesla and Rivian spent a lot of time working on improving aerodynamics to increase efficiency. Now Ford goes and just keep the same ICE F-150 but with an EV platform under it. I can't imagine how that will work as well as a Tesla or Rivian (or any other EV that was designed as an EV from the get go). That is why I am so skeptical about it.

People who buy trucks are not very concerned about aerodynamic efficiency. If you want something aerodynamically efficient, buy a sports car. I am sure that the F-150 will have a larger bed size than the Rivian and a larger payload. Those are important factors for truck buyers. A bigger truck also has room for a bigger battery.

 

[timesinks]

People who buy trucks are not very concerned about aerodynamic efficiency. If you want something aerodynamically efficient, buy a sports car. I am sure that the F-150 will have a larger bed size than the Rivian and a larger payload. Those are important factors for truck buyers. A bigger truck also has room for a bigger battery.

Agree. Plenty of buyers also don't want something that looks like an EV and prefer more traditional styling before they'll even consider it.

The obvious downside being the higher the Wh/mi consumption, the crappier their overall ownership experience is going to be in terms of range and effective charging speed (in terms of miles replenished per unit time), which will ultimately make the vehicles less attractive. It's a trade-off, and I think there's room for both approaches in the market in order to lure people away from ICE vehicles.

 

[inkedsphynx]

People who buy trucks are not very concerned about aerodynamic efficiency. If you want something aerodynamically efficient, buy a sports car. I am sure that the F-150 will have a larger bed size than the Rivian and a larger payload. Those are important factors for truck buyers. A bigger truck also has room for a bigger battery.

I don't think that's necessarily true. In the context of an automobile, aerodynamics are fuel efficiency, plain and simple. Are you positing that consumers don't care about fuel efficiency in trucks? I simply don't believe that. I know I do. Every single person I know with a truck that I've spoken to at length about trucks has spoken about the fuel economy at one point or another.

I won't say that other factors aren't more important, like bed length or payload or towing capacity. I guess it all comes down to how we each define 'not very concerned'. I'm hugely concerned with fuel economy and was still hugely concerned with it in my previous 2 trucks (but my needs outweighed the limitations of truck fuel economy).

 

[Sultanum]

I agree with @inkedsphynx . They don't care for aerodynamics but they care if the car has 400 or 500 range. An the design doesn't have to look like a tradi EV. Ford could have designed something to appeal to their customers and still be aerodynamic.

IMO the decision was purely on saving cost by using a lot of the same parts.

With that said I also agree with others. It is great that they are entering this market. Worse case we get more people pushing for better charging infrastructure!

 

[azbill]

I don't think that's necessarily true. In the context of an automobile, aerodynamics are fuel efficiency, plain and simple. Are you positing that consumers don't care about fuel efficiency in trucks? I simply don't believe that. I know I do. Every single person I know with a truck that I've spoken to at length about trucks has spoken about the fuel economy at one point or another.

I won't say that other factors aren't more important, like bed length or payload or towing capacity. I guess it all comes down to how we each define 'not very concerned'. I'm hugely concerned with fuel economy and was still hugely concerned with it in my previous 2 trucks (but my needs outweighed the limitations of truck fuel economy).

Today the F-150 happens to be the best selling truck in the US, and no I am not a Ford owner, have a GMC myself. So it seems to have good enough economy for the masses, thus aerodynamics are adequate for millions of people. I am also sure that over the years Ford has spent time fine tuning the aerodyanmcis of their trucks, just like Rivian or Tesla have. What is the difference in the drag coefficients? Do you know the numbers? Are you sure the Rivian is better than the F-150? Ok, I suspect that since it is smaller, it likely has less drag. But Ford can also build a Ranger EV that will be smaller than a Rivian and probably have less drag also.

 

[inkedsphynx]

Today the F-150 happens to be the best selling truck in the US, and no I am not a Ford owner, have a GMC myself. So it seems to have good enough economy for the masses, thus aerodynamics are adequate for millions of people. I am also sure that over the years Ford has spent time fine tuning the aerodyanmcis of their trucks, just like Rivian or Tesla have. What is the difference in the drag coefficients? Do you know the numbers? Are you sure the Rivian is better than the F-150? Ok, I suspect that since it is smaller, it likely has less drag. But Ford can also build a Ranger EV that will be smaller than a Rivian and probably have less drag also.

Your original point flatly states that nobody who buys a truck cares about aerodynamics (fuel economy or looks). I'm attempting to make the case that you're wrong, and you're not really disputing my point. The provided economies on comparable trucks of any size are almost all within 1 or at most 2 mpg of each other. If we're using fuel efficiency as a direct comparison for aerodynamics (there are obviously other factors) then we can see that there's no choice for the consumer currently. It's not about what's selling now, it's about what choices there are versus how sales would differ with different choices available.

If Dodge had redone the Ram for 2021 and it got 10 more MPG than the same F150, do you think Ford would still be the best selling truck in the country? I don't. Why? Because fuel economy is a feature that every consumer cares about these days and it's one of the most important, even for trucks. F150s are also the best-selling because of fleet sales and fleet purchasers would likely care about fuel economy even more than the average consumer. Regardless, since that choice doesn't exist, as a consumer we decide based on other factors like tow capacity, or bed length, or interior styling, or available fleet-oriented options.

I don't need to know any vehicles specific drag coefficients in order to know that people care about MPG, and I wasn't trying to compare an F150 to a R1T or either to a Ranger or (non-existant) Ranger EV.

 

[Sultanum]

I am sure Ford trucks are awesome. I don't challenge that. But I really don't think that can translate so easily to EVs.

Here is one example based on the little I know (I am no engineer so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on something). The drag is proportional to the square of the speed. An ICE engine is already efficient at high speeds when the drag kicks in, and at low speeds, because it is square, it doesn't matter much. So there's no much gain in improving aerodynamic of an ICE truck. For an electric is the opposite. So it is a big deal.

So my guess is that when designing ICE trucks, they put weight on other aspects. And rightfully so.

I truly believe Ford with it's experience building trucks can build an awesome EV truck. It's just hard for me to believe their best effort is to just put an F-150 on a EV platform.

Sure that is just my opinion. We will have to have the truck out there with people making reviews for us to truly know.

Today the F-150 happens to be the best selling truck in the US, and no I am not a Ford owner, have a GMC myself. So it seems to have good enough economy for the masses, thus aerodynamics are adequate for millions of people. I am also sure that over the years Ford has spent time fine tuning the aerodyanmcis of their trucks, just like Rivian or Tesla have. What is the difference in the drag coefficients? Do you know the numbers? Are you sure the Rivian is better than the F-150? Ok, I suspect that since it is smaller, it likely has less drag. But Ford can also build a Ranger EV that will be smaller than a Rivian and probably have less drag also.

 

[PuddleMonkey]

People who buy trucks are not very concerned about aerodynamic efficiency. If you want something aerodynamically efficient, buy a sports car. I am sure that the F-150 will have a larger bed size than the Rivian and a larger payload. Those are important factors for truck buyers. A bigger truck also has room for a bigger battery.

Been a truck owner since age 16 .. F150/Raptor .. a truck needs to do what a truck should do.. I will be buying the F150EV alongside Rivian. F150 is Ford's bread and butter and it it is safe to say they know that they cant mess it up.

 

[SANZCO2]

Just for some base information....

The only drag coefficient I can see for a Range Rover (closest I can find to a Rivian R1S) is a 1997 Range Rover 4.6 HSE at .38

 

[azbill]

Here is one example based on the little I know (I am no engineer so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on something). The drag is proportional to the square of the speed. An ICE engine is already efficient at high speeds when the drag kicks in, and at low speeds, because it is square, it doesn't matter much.

ICE vehicles overcome the drag by using gearing in the transmission, so the engine runs at lower RPM for the higher speed.

Guess what? Porsche, who is a traditional ICE automaker has trumped both Tesla and Rivian with the Taycan EV. How? The Taycan has two gears, shifting to a better gear at high speeds, thus they are able to get way more than their EPA range at highway speeds.

Why is it that Rivian and Tesla are not doing this to improve highway range? Maybe Ford will be doing something like this, especially if they have a single motor design, which makes it easier to do.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

ICE vehicles overcome the drag by using gearing in the transmission, so the engine runs at lower RPM for the higher speed.

Guess what? Porsche, who is a traditional ICE automaker has trumped both Tesla and Rivian with the Taycan EV. How? The Taycan has two gears, shifting to a better gear at high speeds, thus they are able to get way more than their EPA range at highway speeds.

Why is it that Rivian and Tesla are not doing this to improve highway range? Maybe Ford will be doing something like this, especially if they have a single motor design, which makes it easier to do.

IIRC, Tesla tried two-speed gear boxes early on (maybe with the first gen roadster?). I think they had reliability problems because the electric motors were stripping the gears. Obviously that problem can be solved with larger gears and metallurgy improvements... But Tesla ended up dropping the idea and going with single-speed, instead, iirc. I’ll have to google it to confirm, but that’s my recollection, anyway.

 

[timesinks]

ICE vehicles overcome the drag by using gearing in the transmission, so the engine runs at lower RPM for the higher speed.

Guess what? Porsche, who is a traditional ICE automaker has trumped both Tesla and Rivian with the Taycan EV. How? The Taycan has two gears, shifting to a better gear at high speeds, thus they are able to get way more than their EPA range at highway speeds.

Why is it that Rivian and Tesla are not doing this to improve highway range? Maybe Ford will be doing something like this, especially if they have a single motor design, which makes it easier to do.

Gearing doesn't "overcome" drag. Gearing is about keeping an ICE vehicle's engine operating at its most efficient speed. The efficiency of electric motors isn't nearly as affected by their output speed as IC engines. Drag increases in proportion to the square of your velocity, no matter your energy source or gearing.

I don't think the gearing in the Taycan necessarily makes it more efficient (or, to your point, Tesla and Rivian would be doing it). It's more a matter of the EPA testing methodology deriving a bogus conclusion about the Taycan due to its atypical drivetrain design. Real world Model S data comes in around 260Wh/mi. The Taycan is way less efficient at 340Wh/mi. Just because the EPA's formula guessed a higher number for the Taycan doesn't mean it's inherently more efficient.

 

[azbill]

Gearing doesn't "overcome" drag. Gearing is about keeping an ICE vehicle's engine operating at its most efficient speed. The efficiency of electric motors isn't nearly as affected by their output speed as IC engines. Drag increases in proportion to the square of your velocity, no matter your energy source or gearing.

I don't think the gearing in the Taycan necessarily makes it more efficient (or, to your point, Tesla and Rivian would be doing it). It's more a matter of the EPA testing methodology deriving a bogus conclusion about the Taycan due to its atypical drivetrain design. Real world Model S data comes in around 260Wh/mi. The Taycan is way less efficient at 340Wh/mi. Just because the EPA's formula guessed a higher number for the Taycan doesn't mean it's inherently more efficient.

The Taycan is way better in range than the EPA numbers. Here is a recent test at 70MPH.

We Put The Base Porsche Taycan Through Our Standard 70 MPH Range Test

Porsche recently launched a new Taycan model. It starts at $79,900 and comes with rear-wheel drive. Kyle tested the Taycan with the upgraded battery pack.

insideevs.com

EPA estimate is 225, real world 293 at 70 MPH highway speed. With a usable battery of 79.2KWH, that is 270Wh/mile at that speed.

 

[Heyvernsky]

ICE vehicles overcome the drag by using gearing in the transmission, so the engine runs at lower RPM for the higher speed.

Guess what? Porsche, who is a traditional ICE automaker has trumped both Tesla and Rivian with the Taycan EV. How? The Taycan has two gears, shifting to a better gear at high speeds, thus they are able to get way more than their EPA range at highway speeds.

Why is it that Rivian and Tesla are not doing this to improve highway range? Maybe Ford will be doing something like this, especially if they have a single motor design, which makes it easier to do.

Borg Warner is building just that
2 speed transmission at a hopeful cost of $150 per unit
Pretty awesome
Advances in EV are going to EXPLODE
We are buying early
But life is short
I am done waiting
Like a cell phone EVs will be outdated the day you buy it
I've been putting off a Tesla for years waiting for a truck
3 months!!!!!!!

 

[Heyvernsky]

I saw a MachE prototype that made a crazy loud wine when Drifting
Bet it's the BorgWarner transmission

 

[Jeff0648]

My complaining about this is that EV companies like Tesla and Rivian spent a lot of time working on improving aerodynamics to increase efficiency. Now Ford goes and just keep the same ICE F-150 but with an EV platform under it. I can't imagine how that will work as well as a Tesla or Rivian (or any other EV that was designed as an EV from the get go). That is why I am so skeptical about it.

Ford never makes top to bottom changes to any of their autos, and F150 will never change dramatically. Even with a hybrid or full electric truck, it will look about the same and never lose the giant front high nose. A note I sent to rivian about their bull flat nose that serves no purpose between the headlights except to increase drag, attract bug splatter, and accumulate road debris chips on paint.

 

[inkedsphynx]

Would you have preferred a tapered front end? Would you have sacrificed frunk cargo space for that? I wouldn't. If I were worried about bug splatter or road debris, I'd get it a LeBra 😆