It probably won’t work as well as niche products... but there’s a lot of people who won’t consider an EV until big names like Ford do it — so it’s a net positive, even if it’s not your desired vehicle.My complaining about this is that EV companies like Tesla and Rivian spent a lot of time working on improving aerodynamics to increase efficiency. Now Ford goes and just keep the same ICE F-150 but with an EV platform under it. I can't imagine how that will work as well as a Tesla or Rivian (or any other EV that was designed as an EV from the get go). That is why I am so skeptical about it.
People who buy trucks are not very concerned about aerodynamic efficiency. If you want something aerodynamically efficient, buy a sports car. I am sure that the F-150 will have a larger bed size than the Rivian and a larger payload. Those are important factors for truck buyers. A bigger truck also has room for a bigger battery.My complaining about this is that EV companies like Tesla and Rivian spent a lot of time working on improving aerodynamics to increase efficiency. Now Ford goes and just keep the same ICE F-150 but with an EV platform under it. I can't imagine how that will work as well as a Tesla or Rivian (or any other EV that was designed as an EV from the get go). That is why I am so skeptical about it.
Agree. Plenty of buyers also don't want something that looks like an EV and prefer more traditional styling before they'll even consider it.People who buy trucks are not very concerned about aerodynamic efficiency. If you want something aerodynamically efficient, buy a sports car. I am sure that the F-150 will have a larger bed size than the Rivian and a larger payload. Those are important factors for truck buyers. A bigger truck also has room for a bigger battery.
I don't think that's necessarily true. In the context of an automobile, aerodynamics are fuel efficiency, plain and simple. Are you positing that consumers don't care about fuel efficiency in trucks? I simply don't believe that. I know I do. Every single person I know with a truck that I've spoken to at length about trucks has spoken about the fuel economy at one point or another.People who buy trucks are not very concerned about aerodynamic efficiency. If you want something aerodynamically efficient, buy a sports car. I am sure that the F-150 will have a larger bed size than the Rivian and a larger payload. Those are important factors for truck buyers. A bigger truck also has room for a bigger battery.
Today the F-150 happens to be the best selling truck in the US, and no I am not a Ford owner, have a GMC myself. So it seems to have good enough economy for the masses, thus aerodynamics are adequate for millions of people. I am also sure that over the years Ford has spent time fine tuning the aerodyanmcis of their trucks, just like Rivian or Tesla have. What is the difference in the drag coefficients? Do you know the numbers? Are you sure the Rivian is better than the F-150? Ok, I suspect that since it is smaller, it likely has less drag. But Ford can also build a Ranger EV that will be smaller than a Rivian and probably have less drag also.I don't think that's necessarily true. In the context of an automobile, aerodynamics are fuel efficiency, plain and simple. Are you positing that consumers don't care about fuel efficiency in trucks? I simply don't believe that. I know I do. Every single person I know with a truck that I've spoken to at length about trucks has spoken about the fuel economy at one point or another.
I won't say that other factors aren't more important, like bed length or payload or towing capacity. I guess it all comes down to how we each define 'not very concerned'. I'm hugely concerned with fuel economy and was still hugely concerned with it in my previous 2 trucks (but my needs outweighed the limitations of truck fuel economy).
Your original point flatly states that nobody who buys a truck cares about aerodynamics (fuel economy or looks). I'm attempting to make the case that you're wrong, and you're not really disputing my point. The provided economies on comparable trucks of any size are almost all within 1 or at most 2 mpg of each other. If we're using fuel efficiency as a direct comparison for aerodynamics (there are obviously other factors) then we can see that there's no choice for the consumer currently. It's not about what's selling now, it's about what choices there are versus how sales would differ with different choices available.Today the F-150 happens to be the best selling truck in the US, and no I am not a Ford owner, have a GMC myself. So it seems to have good enough economy for the masses, thus aerodynamics are adequate for millions of people. I am also sure that over the years Ford has spent time fine tuning the aerodyanmcis of their trucks, just like Rivian or Tesla have. What is the difference in the drag coefficients? Do you know the numbers? Are you sure the Rivian is better than the F-150? Ok, I suspect that since it is smaller, it likely has less drag. But Ford can also build a Ranger EV that will be smaller than a Rivian and probably have less drag also.
Today the F-150 happens to be the best selling truck in the US, and no I am not a Ford owner, have a GMC myself. So it seems to have good enough economy for the masses, thus aerodynamics are adequate for millions of people. I am also sure that over the years Ford has spent time fine tuning the aerodyanmcis of their trucks, just like Rivian or Tesla have. What is the difference in the drag coefficients? Do you know the numbers? Are you sure the Rivian is better than the F-150? Ok, I suspect that since it is smaller, it likely has less drag. But Ford can also build a Ranger EV that will be smaller than a Rivian and probably have less drag also.
Been a truck owner since age 16 .. F150/Raptor .. a truck needs to do what a truck should do.. I will be buying the F150EV alongside Rivian. F150 is Ford's bread and butter and it it is safe to say they know that they cant mess it up.People who buy trucks are not very concerned about aerodynamic efficiency. If you want something aerodynamically efficient, buy a sports car. I am sure that the F-150 will have a larger bed size than the Rivian and a larger payload. Those are important factors for truck buyers. A bigger truck also has room for a bigger battery.
ICE vehicles overcome the drag by using gearing in the transmission, so the engine runs at lower RPM for the higher speed.Here is one example based on the little I know (I am no engineer so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on something). The drag is proportional to the square of the speed. An ICE engine is already efficient at high speeds when the drag kicks in, and at low speeds, because it is square, it doesn't matter much.
IIRC, Tesla tried two-speed gear boxes early on (maybe with the first gen roadster?). I think they had reliability problems because the electric motors were stripping the gears. Obviously that problem can be solved with larger gears and metallurgy improvements... But Tesla ended up dropping the idea and going with single-speed, instead, iirc. I’ll have to google it to confirm, but that’s my recollection, anyway.ICE vehicles overcome the drag by using gearing in the transmission, so the engine runs at lower RPM for the higher speed.
Guess what? Porsche, who is a traditional ICE automaker has trumped both Tesla and Rivian with the Taycan EV. How? The Taycan has two gears, shifting to a better gear at high speeds, thus they are able to get way more than their EPA range at highway speeds.
Why is it that Rivian and Tesla are not doing this to improve highway range? Maybe Ford will be doing something like this, especially if they have a single motor design, which makes it easier to do.
Gearing doesn't "overcome" drag. Gearing is about keeping an ICE vehicle's engine operating at its most efficient speed. The efficiency of electric motors isn't nearly as affected by their output speed as IC engines. Drag increases in proportion to the square of your velocity, no matter your energy source or gearing.ICE vehicles overcome the drag by using gearing in the transmission, so the engine runs at lower RPM for the higher speed.
Guess what? Porsche, who is a traditional ICE automaker has trumped both Tesla and Rivian with the Taycan EV. How? The Taycan has two gears, shifting to a better gear at high speeds, thus they are able to get way more than their EPA range at highway speeds.
Why is it that Rivian and Tesla are not doing this to improve highway range? Maybe Ford will be doing something like this, especially if they have a single motor design, which makes it easier to do.
The Taycan is way better in range than the EPA numbers. Here is a recent test at 70MPH.Gearing doesn't "overcome" drag. Gearing is about keeping an ICE vehicle's engine operating at its most efficient speed. The efficiency of electric motors isn't nearly as affected by their output speed as IC engines. Drag increases in proportion to the square of your velocity, no matter your energy source or gearing.
I don't think the gearing in the Taycan necessarily makes it more efficient (or, to your point, Tesla and Rivian would be doing it). It's more a matter of the EPA testing methodology deriving a bogus conclusion about the Taycan due to its atypical drivetrain design. Real world Model S data comes in around 260Wh/mi. The Taycan is way less efficient at 340Wh/mi. Just because the EPA's formula guessed a higher number for the Taycan doesn't mean it's inherently more efficient.
Borg Warner is building just thatICE vehicles overcome the drag by using gearing in the transmission, so the engine runs at lower RPM for the higher speed.
Guess what? Porsche, who is a traditional ICE automaker has trumped both Tesla and Rivian with the Taycan EV. How? The Taycan has two gears, shifting to a better gear at high speeds, thus they are able to get way more than their EPA range at highway speeds.
Why is it that Rivian and Tesla are not doing this to improve highway range? Maybe Ford will be doing something like this, especially if they have a single motor design, which makes it easier to do.
Ford never makes top to bottom changes to any of their autos, and F150 will never change dramatically. Even with a hybrid or full electric truck, it will look about the same and never lose the giant front high nose. A note I sent to rivian about their bull flat nose that serves no purpose between the headlights except to increase drag, attract bug splatter, and accumulate road debris chips on paint.My complaining about this is that EV companies like Tesla and Rivian spent a lot of time working on improving aerodynamics to increase efficiency. Now Ford goes and just keep the same ICE F-150 but with an EV platform under it. I can't imagine how that will work as well as a Tesla or Rivian (or any other EV that was designed as an EV from the get go). That is why I am so skeptical about it.