[Sultanum]

Got an email from Ford yesterday saying invitations to order will start soon. Let's see if it is going to be the new or old price.

 

[EVRider]

I guess a lot of people who cancelled their Rivian orders are having a come-to-Jesus moment.

 

[atebit]

I guess a lot of people who cancelled their Rivian orders are having a come-to-Jesus moment.

More like, they’re speaking in tounges.🤬

 

[Yellow Buddy]

I guess a lot of people who cancelled their Rivian orders are having a come-to-Jesus moment.

$5-$8k is much more acceptable than $15-$20k though...

 

[kizamybute']

$5-$8k is much more acceptable than $15-$20k though...

But Ford's increase is a year over year increase. Rivian's pricing was a year over 4 year increase. Rivian was around 20%, or 5% per year. Ford just jacked up pricing close to 9% in just one year. That's a big increase. Especially when you compare the stats of the two vehicles. Ford wins in size. Rivian pretty much wins in everything else. Also, Rivian was designed to be what it is from the ground up. The Ford is conversion of an ICE vehicle. If you need a "work truck", the Ford is probably the best option. For everyone else, tough to argue the value of the Rivian in comparison to what else is offered or soon to be offered.

I'm sure Rivian sent Ford a "thank you" letter. At a $16,000 discount compared to the Ford, the Ford likely would have appealed to a wider buyer group. Now, with the gap closed, Rivian becomes more appealing for most that are not using their trucks on a worksite.

The downside to all this is that most of the country, can't afford $90,000 vehicles. I love that GM, with the Corvette and now the Lyriq, are charging reasonable prices to make them available to more customers, despite the fact that they could easily have jacked up the price I think that will prove beneficial to them in the long run. Right now, with the shortages, there's still more customers than vehicles available. Once that changes, customers will remember which companies tried to drag them through the mud and take advantage of temporary demand.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

But Ford's increase is a year over year increase. Rivian's pricing was a year over 4 year increase. Rivian was around 20%, or 5% per year. Ford just jacked up pricing close to 9% in just one year. That's a big increase. Especially when you compare the stats of the two vehicles. Ford wins in size. Rivian pretty much wins in everything else. Also, Rivian was designed to be what it is from the ground up. The Ford is conversion of an ICE vehicle. If you need a "work truck", the Ford is probably the best option. For everyone else, tough to argue the value of the Rivian in comparison to what else is offered or soon to be offered.

I'm sure Rivian sent Ford a "thank you" letter. At a $16,000 discount compared to the Ford, the Ford likely would have appealed to a wider buyer group. Now, with the gap closed, Rivian becomes more appealing for most that are not using their trucks on a worksite.

The downside to all this is that most of the country, can't afford $90,000 vehicles. I love that GM, with the Corvette and now the Lyriq, are charging reasonable prices to make them available to more customers, despite the fact that they could easily have jacked up the price I think that will prove beneficial to them in the long run. Right now, with the shortages, there's still more customers than vehicles available. Once that changes, customers will remember which companies tried to drag them through the mud and take advantage of temporary demand.

That may be, but that’s not how people see it. They were both done in one shot, especially for folks who may have reserved say January 2022. To them, it wasn’t 4 years

 

[mailescort]

That may be, but that’s not how people see it. They were both done in one shot, especially for folks who may have reserved say January 2022. To them, it wasn’t 4 years

Yeah, I agree. To both, it happened at the same time but I do appreciate the sentiment. At least RJ, rolled back for people prior to the price change. Not only that, I've been hearing quite a few nightmares at Ford Dealerships with a markup and a "take it or leave it" attitude.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

Yeah, I agree. To both, it happened at the same time but I do appreciate the sentiment. At least RJ, rolled back for people prior to the price change. Not only that, I've been hearing quite a few nightmares at Ford Dealerships with a markup and a "take it or leave it" attitude.

I think that’s the biggest problem Ford will face. The dealership sales model sucks. That said, service/parts might be more readily available.

 

[Sultanum]

Got an email from my dealer. Supposedly I will be invited to finish my order in the coming weeks with the new price.

Not sure if I am willing to pay 60k+. Maybe I will buy to keep it until I get the R1S then flip it. Or I just get the Pro if it doesn't look terrible in terms of finish and quality.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

Got an email from my dealer. Supposedly I will be invited to finish my order in the coming weeks with the new price.

Not sure if I am willing to pay 60k+. Maybe I will buy to keep it until I get the R1S then flip it. Or I just get the Pro if it doesn't look terrible in terms of finish and quality.

The Pro is a steal at $40k. At $50k…I’m not sure. There’s too many things missing at that price point.

 

[kizamybute']

Got an email from my dealer. Supposedly I will be invited to finish my order in the coming weeks with the new price.

Not sure if I am willing to pay 60k+. Maybe I will buy to keep it until I get the R1S then flip it. Or I just get the Pro if it doesn't look terrible in terms of finish and quality.

I learned, the Ford crowd is definitely VERY different from the Rivian or Tesla type crowd.
I sold my F-150 Lightning. Buyers were all concerned with "Invoice Cost". MSRP, Etc. They talked to me as if I were a dealer. They didn't want to simply make an offer. They only wanted to pay X amount over invoice or MSRP. Profit margins are MUCH less on the Ford that the Rivian. But, the price increase will be a good thing for sellers who purchased or reserved at pre-increase pricing. Just as is the case with the Rivian.

Point being, while you should do OK, it's not a complete slam dunk that there will be a large profit margin available to sellers of a Lightning, after covering cost for sales tax and license.

I think that’s the biggest problem Ford will face. The dealership sales model sucks. That said, service/parts might be more readily available.

I agree with others, dealer experience sucks. I had been in Tesla's for 9 years Purchased several of them. The Lightning was the first car I bought through a dealer in 9+ years. Definitely didn't miss the experience. The Rivian came two days prior. They delivered it to my house, signed two pages and was done in less than 5 minutes. Despite the Ford pricing having already been settled upon, still took almost two hours at the dealer. Signing page after page after page. Then having to decline all the BS crap they were trying to sell me (gap insurance, warranties, tire repair service, "OIL SERVICE" LOL. Etc, etc. They just wouldn't take NO for an answer.

Conversation....."I can get you the extended warranty for $3,400, that's reducing it 20% to our cost". My reply..."No thank you, I don't keep cars more than 3 years, so I'm good with the factory warranty"......Salesman...."blah, blah, blah, blah, blah......so you really still need it even if you only keep the car for two years". My reply again...."NO, I'm good with the factory warranty".......Salesman, after 4 or 5 go rounds of this, finally says oK. Leaves to go print more of the paperwork....Then comes back with the paperwork......, including the "Final" contract and wanted me to start signing,,..I slowed him down to actually read the details and he started with......."Oh, and I was able to get my manager to bring the warranty price down to $2,900, so I saved you over $1,000 on it, that's reflected here and here" (pointing to the contract). I by this point was getting annoyed. I had to get a little more firm and tell him, "I'M NOT BUYING THE WARRANTY". Had to wait again for him to go back and again, reprint the paperwork. Apparently they think they can change your mind by putting it in there and forcing you to wait longer.

Whole thing was very annoying and a waste of time. I pleaded with them prior to going down there to please have all the paperwork ready to sign because I was in a rush for time. Of course, they didn't do that.

 

[atebit]

“That Trucoat, they install that at the factory, ya know?”

 

[Yellow Buddy]

I learned, the Ford crowd is definitely VERY different from the Rivian or Tesla type crowd.
I sold my F-150 Lightning. Buyers were all concerned with "Invoice Cost". MSRP, Etc. They talked to me as if I were a dealer. They didn't want to simply make an offer. They only wanted to pay X amount over invoice or MSRP. Profit margins are MUCH less on the Ford that the Rivian. But, the price increase will be a good thing for sellers who purchased or reserved at pre-increase pricing. Just as is the case with the Rivian.

Point being, while you should do OK, it's not a complete slam dunk that there will be a large profit margin available to sellers of a Lightning, after covering cost for sales tax and license.





I agree with others, dealer experience sucks. I had been in Tesla's for 9 years Purchased several of them. The Lightning was the first car I bought through a dealer in 9+ years. Definitely didn't miss the experience. The Rivian came two days prior. They delivered it to my house, signed two pages and was done in less than 5 minutes. Despite the Ford pricing having already been settled upon, still took almost two hours at the dealer. Signing page after page after page. Then having to decline all the BS crap they were trying to sell me (gap insurance, warranties, tire repair service, "OIL SERVICE" LOL. Etc, etc. They just wouldn't take NO for an answer.

Conversation....."I can get you the extended warranty for $3,400, that's reducing it 20% to our cost". My reply..."No thank you, I don't keep cars more than 3 years, so I'm good with the factory warranty"......Salesman...."blah, blah, blah, blah, blah......so you really still need it even if you only keep the car for two years". My reply again...."NO, I'm good with the factory warranty".......Salesman, after 4 or 5 go rounds of this, finally says oK. Leaves to go print more of the paperwork....Then comes back with the paperwork......, including the "Final" contract and wanted me to start signing,,..I slowed him down to actually read the details and he started with......."Oh, and I was able to get my manager to bring the warranty price down to $2,900, so I saved you over $1,000 on it, that's reflected here and here" (pointing to the contract). I by this point was getting annoyed. I had to get a little more firm and tell him, "I'M NOT BUYING THE WARRANTY". Had to wait again for him to go back and again, reprint the paperwork. Apparently they think they can change your mind by putting it in there and forcing you to wait longer.

Whole thing was very annoying and a waste of time. I pleaded with them prior to going down there to please have all the paperwork ready to sign because I was in a rush for time. Of course, they didn't do that.

The dealership experience is what drove me to Tesla as well. It was Jaguar that held my trade in keys hostage. That said...Tesla today is not what Tesla was 9 or 5 years ago. I saw a drastic change in the 2018/2019 timeframe as the company grew and it was not for the better. Quite frankly, the recent service disappointments had me wishing I had the option of getting the car repaired at a dealership again where I could at least hunt for a place that offered better service. Even my last purchase (~2019) the Model X had issues at a delivery, literally trim pieces hanging and the delivery person looked at me and asked - "Do you still want the car? if not, you're within the 7 day return window" on the day I was picking it up. At that point I didn't see much of a difference anymore and that was the last Tesla for me - and yes I returned it after I found more deficiencies and got more - take it or leave it - attitude from them.

Shortly after, I went in on Rivian but here's to hoping it's better than Tesla....

 

[kizamybute']

The dealership experience is what drove me to Tesla as well. It was Jaguar that held my trade in keys hostage. That said...Tesla today is not what Tesla was 9 or 5 years ago. I saw a drastic change in the 2018/2019 timeframe as the company grew and it was not for the better. Quite frankly, the recent service disappointments had me wishing I had the option of getting the car repaired at a dealership again where I could at least hunt for a place that offered better service. Even my last purchase (~2019) the Model X had issues at a delivery, literally trim pieces hanging and the delivery person looked at me and asked - "Do you still want the car? if not, you're within the 7 day return window" on the day I was picking it up. At that point I didn't see much of a difference anymore and that was the last Tesla for me - and yes I returned it after I found more deficiencies and got more - take it or leave it - attitude from them.

Shortly after, I went in on Rivian but here's to hoping it's better than Tesla....

I agree 100%. Unfortunately, Tesla grew and their heads have gotten too big. From what was the most incredible service experience to now probably among the worst. Enjoying what I can get from Rivian before they get too big too.

 

[R99]

I think that’s the biggest problem Ford will face. The dealership sales model sucks. That said, service/parts might be more readily available.

There's a lot of Ford dealers licking their chops about the price increase and the markup they'll charge on top of that.

 

[SteinR1T]

The Pro is a steal at $40k. At $50k…I’m not sure. There’s too many things missing at that price point.

I dont agree even at $40k that it's a steal, which still doesn't include destination fee or dealer markup. It's a basic 200 mile range work truck with optional navigation that you have to pay for the Ford subscription.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

I dont agree even at $40k that it's a steal, which still doesn't include destination fee or dealer markup. It's a basic 200 mile range work truck with optional navigation that you have to pay for the Ford subscription.

You're building quite a bit of assumptions there.

The subscription is no different than Tesla's subscription and it's included for 3 years. It's required for connected navigation, which includes real time traffic and weather. If it expires, the GPS and navigation still works, you only lose real time traffic and the connected features. CarPlay also makes it a moot point as well.

In comparison, Rivian offers 12 months free of LTE and then...oh wait. We still have to pay for it. The SR F-150 gets 230 miles of range and comes with AT tires standard. The Rivian on AT tires gets 267. Both have destination fees and I don't have ADM on mine (many don't, many do).

They're very different trucks and if you want to say luxury is important, drivers+, off road capabiity, etc. Those would be valid points but not the ones you made by itself..

 

[SteinR1T]

You're building quite a bit of assumptions there.

The subscription is no different than Tesla's subscription and it's included for 3 years. It's required for connected navigation, which includes real time traffic and weather. If it expires, the GPS and navigation still works, you only lose real time traffic and the connected features. CarPlay also makes it a moot point as well.

In comparison, Rivian offers 12 months free of LTE and then...oh wait. We still have to pay for it. The SR F-150 gets 230 miles of range and comes with AT tires standard. The Rivian on AT tires gets 267. Both have destination fees and I don't have ADM on mine (many don't, many do).

They're very different trucks and if you want to say luxury is important, drivers+, off road capabiity, etc. Those would be valid points but not the ones you made by itself..

What does anything you mentioned have to do with what I said? I'll repeat....I dont agree even at $40k that it's a steal, which still doesn't include destination fee or dealer markup. It's a basic 200 mile range work truck with optional navigation that you have to pay for the Ford subscription.