[Ivan Robertson | R1T]

With this nonsense about the 400+ mile not being available at launch, I'm for sure going to lease mine. Or, I'm hoping for the aux battery pack to be great or... a battery exchange program. It just doesn't feel very adventurous with a car that "only" has 300+ mile range.

What I find interesting in this conversation is the "+" sign behind the range numbers. It probably means that the EPA still haven't tested the car so we don't know for sure what the real mileage is. Another point to the "+" is that there are probably tons of testing and software updates to be made on the Rivian end to better that mileage. Tesla is the leader in energy consumption of their cars. With a simple software update, people are seeing miles being added to their range. For comparison, the Model X has around 375 miles of range on a 100kwh battery. Obviously, it's not a brick getting tossed into the wind like the Rivian, but I think that we can expect a different range as we get closer to the date. Lastly, how do the miles translate to off-road miles? Are they a 1-to-1 transfer or will I get more or less when off-road.

Anyhow, still upset . But I'll be rocking my launch edition in June.

 

[azbill]

Rivian has stated these two things:

1) Leasing is not currently available.
2) Batteries cannot be upgraded later.

I am waiting for the Max Pack.

 

[Nellmack]

I've been driving my Tesla S for 6+ years - I need the 400 mile pack and I'm pissed there's no delivery date for the large pack. I feel like Rivian did a bait and switch (buy our truck, it has 400 miles of range - 2 years later - just kidding, only 300 but if you hang in there for another year (wink wink) we'll have the 400 mile pack available). Out of the box Rivian is alienating their high end customers. Bad plan. I'm waiting to see what happens but I expect that I will pull my order.

 

[inkedsphynx]

High end customers? Isn't that all of us, given that we're all paying basically the same price for the vehicles?

 

[Nellmack]

Higher end customers.

 

[Mr. Gee]

I've been driving my Tesla S for 6+ years - I need the 400 mile pack and I'm pissed there's no delivery date for the large pack. I feel like Rivian did a bait and switch (buy our truck, it has 400 miles of range - 2 years later - just kidding, only 300 but if you hang in there for another year (wink wink) we'll have the 400 mile pack available). Out of the box Rivian is alienating their high end customers. Bad plan. I'm waiting to see what happens but I expect that I will pull my order.

Bait & switch would apply if they got you to pay for the vehicle but reneged on making the 400mile battery available. You put down a $1,000 deposit for the option to buy a vehicle in the future. You still have that option.

 

[EyeOnRivian]

I need the 400 mile pack and I'm pissed there's no delivery date for the large pack.

True if you're looking to get the R1S, however, Rivian has said, and it's on their website, the R1T 400 kWh BP will be available in Jan 2022.

Can I choose the 400+ mile pack with a Launch Edition R1T?
No, the Launch Edition R1T is available with the 300+ mile Large pack. If you want to configure the R1T with the 400+ mile Max pack, you can select the Adventure or Explore package, available for delivery beginning in January 2022. Note, we'll announce the timing of a longer range R1S after launch.

Source: Can I choose the 400+ mile pack with a Launch Edition R1T? - Support Center - Rivian

Considering I was looking to get the R1S with the max pack, yea, I'm a little disappointed, but TBH I'm not surprised. Rivian is going to target the greatest demand and from unofficial surveys (only Rivian has the true numbers) the 135 kWh BP is the most pre-ordered which isn't surprising to me. The 135 kWh BP has 9 battery modules where the 180 has 12. A battery module has 648 battery cells. That's a difference 1944 (3*648) battery cells. So for every 4 vehicles w/ 180 kWh BP, Rivian can make 5 vehicles w/ the 135 kWh BP. Blow these numbers up a thousand fold - 4000 and 5000 - you can see that Rivian will be able to fill over a thousand more orders out of the gate. With all the EVs coming on the market there is clearly a strain on acquiring these battery cells. Rivian could have (and still could but doubtful) push the Jun and Aug launch dates out further. With the increase of competition they're under a lot of pressure to start delivering while at the same balance the needs to also do thorough testing. And who knows, by Jan 2022 the battery tech may have improved providing longer range and/or cheaper prices. They are a startup in a highly competitive and dynamic industry. Customers need to be able to pivot just as the companies do or you're going to find yourself getting all twisted up in knots. IMHO, not worth it. I have the choice to either pivot or move on. You have the same choice.

 

[Nellmack]

I disagree. They advertised a 400 mile battery pack and they didn't stipulate that it wouldn't be available until a year + after they start shipping 300 mile trucks which is why I made the decision to keep my truck. (The 300 mile pack doesn't work for me.) They baited me into thinking I could buy a 400 mile truck from the start and after I made the decision to keep my truck they switched the battery size to 300 miles. Had I know that they were only offering a 300 mile pack I would have dropped the electric truck idea all together. I've had expensive service repairs on my current truck and I'm mad that I didn't get rid of it back then.

 

[Wildabeest]

you can see that Rivian will be able to fill over a thousand more orders out of the gate.

You’re assuming that battery supply is a constraint. I’m not sure that’s true. Could be, but then again, could not be.

 

[EyeOnRivian]

I disagree. They advertised a 400 mile battery pack and they didn't stipulate that it wouldn't be available until a year + after they start shipping 300 mile trucks which is why I made the decision to keep my truck. (The 300 mile pack doesn't work for me.) They baited me into thinking I could buy a 400 mile truck from the start and after I made the decision to keep my truck they switched the battery size to 300 miles. Had I know that they were only offering a 300 mile pack I would have dropped the electric truck idea all together. I've had expensive service repairs on my current truck and I'm mad that I didn't get rid of it back then.

Like I said, the situation is not ideal for some, such as life. Rivian also indicated many times and places these EAVs are prototypes and things can change. Guess what, things changed. Are you going to blame Rivian for not predicting or including in their "advertisement" that a pandemic was going to occur? Again, I sympathize with those where these changes messes with their plans, but that's part of the risk with any prototype. You could have put a deposit down on Fisker Karma who filed for Chapter 11. I hope things eventually work out for you.

 

[EyeOnRivian]

You’re assuming that battery supply is a constraint. I’m not sure that’s true. Could be, but then again, could not be.

Yes, it's an assumption based on many articles, but hopefully not the case for Rivian, though at this point, like a lot of things with Rivian, we don't even know which battery supplier they will be using. Speaking of supplies there have been recent reports there's a shortage of microchips being made (from China?) that are used by the auto industry. Regardless if there are supply constraints or not, it has no affect on the fact that Rivian can still produce and fill 25% more 135 kWh BP orders than 180 kWh BP orders.

 

[Nellmack]

I don't think you understand the situation. I'm not complaining about the pandemic. I'm not complaining about the prototype issues. I'm complaining about the fact that Rivian told everyone that a 400 mile truck would be available when they started to ship trucks and then they switched that plan to - only 300 mile trucks are available. I made a financial decision based on Rivian's advertisement and they switched it on me/us. I'll survive w/wo a Rivian truck.

 

[EyeOnRivian]

I don't think you understand the situation. I'm not complaining about the pandemic. I'm not complaining about the prototype issues.

I didn't say you were complaining about the pandemic. It was just an example of how things change beyond our control (including Rivian). And when they do, we do our best to roll with it. A prototype is not set in stone. Rivian said multiple times, things can change. And this goes beyond the physical vehicle such as pricing, servicing, etc., including the battery pack size they decide to offer. Ford did it with the Mach-E. Their initial extended range battery was 98+ kWh. Even that's still the actual size, Ford creating 10 kWh buffer lowering he "usable" size down to 88 kWh and didn't change the price for the extended battery. This stuff happens all the time with prototypes.

I made a financial decision based on Rivian's advertisement and they switched it on me/us. I'll survive w/wo a Rivian truck.

Yes, most people did. It's the "risk" we all take with anything that's still in development. The parameters in which we made our decisions might change, which means we sometimes have to re-address and adjust those decisions. And if you placed a pre-order, the Terms and Conditions document that you would have to agree to minimally states:

7. Vehicle Configuration and Battery Range.
You understand that we may not have completed the development of the Vehicle or begun manufacturing the
Vehicle at the time of your Pre-Order. You further understand that the Vehicle’s battery range and other
available features at the starting price have not yet been determined. By agreeing to these Terms, you
represent and warrant to us that you understand that the Vehicle configuration may change prior to execution
of the Final Sales Agreement.

 

[Mr. Gee]

This is like Kickstarter but less risky because your "deposit" is fully refundable at any time. Your $1,000 got you a place in line. If their timetable doesn't agree with yours take back the $1,000 and buy a vehicle that matches your expectations.

 

[Nellmack]

With all due respect, I don't think get why I'm unhappy. If Rivian's decision was to produce the smaller battery pack first so they could sell more trucks (& make more $), I understand. They should have explained that a long time ago before people (like me) made financial decisions based on their advertisements. I get that they are more focused on their profits but I'm allowed to be upset with their decision and I suspect a lot of other people feel the same way I do but they don't have the time or desire to write about it. Thanks for the conversation. I'm out.

 

[Nellmack]

This is like Kickstarter but less risky because your "deposit" is fully refundable at any time. Your $1,000 got you a place in line. If their timetable doesn't agree with yours take back the $1,000 and buy a vehicle that matches your expectations.

That's exactly my point. If I knew the 400 mile pack wasn't available until 1 year + after the 300 mile pack I would have purchased a new ICE truck two years ago.

 

[inkedsphynx]

I'm still trying to figure out how 6 months == 1 year +

June 2021 to January 2022 is still 6 months, last I checked.

If you put your deposit in over 2 years ago, then I'd assume you're pretty early on in the list for delivery.

You put a deposit down on a product that does not yet exist and then you made personal financial decisions based on the assumptions that you made. Rivian is in no way responsible for your decisions and choices. I don't understand this mindset at all. Rivian has communicated clearly the timelines and expectations for what would and would not be available.

I would have loved the 400 mile pack as well, but I'll settle for the 300, because for me the extra time is a burden, given my lease is ending. If Rivian tomorrow said they can't ship any trucks until 2022, I still wouldn't sit here and blame them for the choices I made. We all knew the risks when we put down a deposit because, as someone else indicated above, they are clearly spelled out.

 

[Mr. Gee]

That's an impossible standard.and an unrealistic expectation.They may well have had an expectation to introduce all variations as of 2 years ago (a time when the company was more conceptual than "production ready") lots of things happen over a two year period, especially with an undertaking this huge. Nobody misled you two years ago and nobody's screwing you over today.

 

[Broker21]

What about the recent post of $10,000 for the upgrade to the 400 mile range battery. And most recent $7500 to the 375 mile range battery? I think that this is the greatest curve ball. As none of this was mentioned when I even submitted my configuration!

 

[EyeOnRivian]

What about the recent post of $10,000 for the upgrade to the 400 mile range battery.

What about it? We all expected the larger the BP the more it's going to cost. What we didn't know is by how much, though $10k fits with what I've heard from RJ and Rivian. That is, using round numbers, the base R1 (105 kWh BP) was $70k. RJ said in a couple of interviews the top end model (180 kWh) would be under $90k (w/o add ons). Extrapolating from that one could easily come up with about a $10k premium for each higher battery pack.

And most recent $7500 to the 375 mile range battery?

First I'm hearing about this. Can you provide the source?