[EVRider]

A little too storm trooper.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Agreed on the stormtrooper comment. Another color would be better. White, not so much.

I was more excited about this vehicle prior to the many significant corporate issues. For a while I thought they were done for. Maybe they can survive?

 

[kizamybute']

I was never a fan of the Rivian in photos. Love the way it looks in person though. So much better. This thing, looks far worse than the Rivian did in photos. For their sake, I hope it looks A LOT better in person than it does in photos. I guess it could just be my own personal tastes, but not a fan of any part of it.

 

[Riviano]

Here is the off-road version of that truck that participated in the San Felipe 250 race.

 

[ColeAK]

Here is the off-road version of that truck that participated in the San Felipe 250 race.

Nice, it has real steel springs instead of air springs.

 

[JulianD]

Nice, it has real steel springs instead of air springs.

Have you ever driven a vehicle with air suspension? The ride quality is so much better than a vehicle with traditional coil spring suspension. Yeah, they wear out and are expensive to replace but with the amount of time I spend in my vehicle it makes it worth the cost of replacement. I would expect to get 100k miles out of the air suspension before needing to replace it, that is acceptable to me. Plus, you have the capability of raising and lowering the vehicle with the air suspension which is great if you do any off-roading with it.

Driving my wife's Range Rover Sport back to back with my Lexus GX (very comparable vehicles) the Range Rover with air suspension is so much more comfortable. We had a 2013 Mercedes CLS550 years ago with air suspension and unfortunately it was hit by an inattentive driver and totaled so we replaced it with a new 2019 CLS450 without the air suspension. The newer car didn't ride nearly as well as the older one did. We should have checked that box when we bought that car for sure... we probably would still have it.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Have you ever driven a vehicle with air suspension? The ride quality is so much better than a vehicle with traditional coil spring suspension. Yeah, they wear out and are expensive to replace but with the amount of time I spend in my vehicle it makes it worth the cost of replacement. I would expect to get 100k miles out of the air suspension before needing to replace it, that is acceptable to me. Plus, you have the capability of raising and lowering the vehicle with the air suspension which is great if you do any off-roading with it.

Driving my wife's Range Rover Sport back to back with my Lexus GX (very comparable vehicles) the Range Rover with air suspension is so much more comfortable. We had a 2013 Mercedes CLS550 years ago with air suspension and unfortunately it was hit by an inattentive driver and totaled so we replaced it with a new 2019 CLS450 without the air suspension. The newer car didn't ride nearly as well as the older one did. We should have checked that box when we bought that car for sure... we probably would still have it.

I'm not convinced. I've owned my fair share of trucks, and honestly I prefer a quality coilover setup. They're not only more reliable, but I think they have a better road feel (not that "floaty" feeling that air suspension seems to have. The one caveat to my own impressions is weight... The R1T is the heaviest truck I've owned, so perhaps that is part of the problem?

 

[ColeAK]

Have you ever driven a vehicle with air suspension? The ride quality is so much better than a vehicle with traditional coil spring suspension. Yeah, they wear out and are expensive to replace but with the amount of time I spend in my vehicle it makes it worth the cost of replacement. I would expect to get 100k miles out of the air suspension before needing to replace it, that is acceptable to me. Plus, you have the capability of raising and lowering the vehicle with the air suspension which is great if you do any off-roading with it.

Driving my wife's Range Rover Sport back to back with my Lexus GX (very comparable vehicles) the Range Rover with air suspension is so much more comfortable. We had a 2013 Mercedes CLS550 years ago with air suspension and unfortunately it was hit by an inattentive driver and totaled so we replaced it with a new 2019 CLS450 without the air suspension. The newer car didn't ride nearly as well as the older one did. We should have checked that box when we bought that car for sure... we probably would still have it.

I had a MB GL and an E class with air, as well as an A6 Allroad. My brother has a model S and a grandcherokee trailhawk with air. We currently have an e class with springs, I think the springs drive better in the E, when I had my S with springs the difference was subjective between his and mine. I felt his was better on straight flat roads, mine was better on the winding roads. My current model 3 with springs out drives both of them. My 2002 Allroad was a mess, but they were known for that. The best riding vehicles I’ve ever owned (for vastly different purposes) is my current LX570 (most comfortable) and a 997 GT3 (best performance), both are on steel springs.

Ride comfort is about dampening more then springs. Air suspensions suck off road, rough roads, and in the cold: when you raise them it increases the spring rate therefor greatly decreasing articulation, air springs need sag to be compliant. They also overheat on long stretches of rough surface, I’m talking things like 10+ miles of washboard. Also up here (Alaska) when it drops below 0F for long periods they tend to freeze from the inside and throw codes, this is the reason I got rid of my GL, i would go to start it and it would go into “limp mode” where I would have to drive home at ~25 mph in low. For off road my brother pulled the air in his trailhawk for Kings with springs, high mode was useless, it turned into a 3 wheeled pogo stick. No one has been able to build a competent reliable off roader with air. And I don’t think I’d ever own one (well unless they do a lightning version) but for a truck it would be hard to beat the ride of a raptor, which is also on traditional springs.

 

[SteinR1T]

I had a MB GL and an E class with air, as well as an A6 Allroad. My brother has a model S and a grandcherokee trailhawk with air. We currently have an e class with springs, I think the springs drive better in the E, when I had my S with springs the difference was subjective between his and mine. I felt his was better on straight flat roads, mine was better on the winding roads. My current model 3 with springs out drives both of them. My 2002 Allroad was a mess, but they were known for that. The best riding vehicles I’ve ever owned (for vastly different purposes) is my current LX570 (most comfortable) and a 997 GT3 (best performance), both are on steel springs.

Ride comfort is about dampening more then springs. Air suspensions suck off road, rough roads, and in the cold: when you raise them it increases the spring rate therefor greatly decreasing articulation, air springs need sag to be compliant. They also overheat on long stretches of rough surface, I’m talking things like 10+ miles of washboard. Also up here (Alaska) when it drops below 0F for long periods they tend to freeze from the inside and throw codes, this is the reason I got rid of my GL, i would go to start it and it would go into “limp mode” where I would have to drive home at ~25 mph in low. For off road my brother pulled the air in his trailhawk for Kings with springs, high mode was useless, it turned into a 3 wheeled pogo stick. No one has been able to build a competent reliable off roader with air. And I don’t think I’d ever own one (well unless they do a lightning version) but for a truck it would be hard to beat the ride of a raptor, which is also on traditional springs.

Coilover is great once it's tuned for a specific purpose. Once you throw in adding/removing weight, towing, off-roading, or high-speed cornering, coilover is not going to perform well outside it's tuned purpose. Of course dampening control is an option that helps broaden performance range.

Not sure your LX570 or 997 GT3 can perform as well as an R1T in all the above. Look at what the suspension handles...auto lowering when driving at high speeds for better efficiency, 11K towing capacity, crazy high acceleration, great on-road comfort. I can't speak for off-road yet. However, air suspension has its cons like you said.

 

[ColeAK]

Coilover is great once it's tuned for a specific purpose. Once you throw in adding/removing weight, towing, off-roading, or high-speed cornering, coilover is not going to perform well outside it's tuned purpose. Of course dampening control is an option that helps broaden performance range.

Not sure your LX570 or 997 GT3 can perform as well as an R1T in all the above. Look at what the suspension handles...auto lowering when driving at high speeds for better efficiency, 11K towing capacity, crazy high acceleration, great on-road comfort. I can't speak for off-road yet. However, air suspension has its cons like you said.

My LX also lowers at speed (63mph) but does it via hydraulics with traditional springs instead of air springs. The hydraulic based adjustable suspensions are a far superior option to air but I’ve been told ~$5-10k more expensive, It’s why Lexus uses air on the GX ($55-65k) and hydraulic on the LX ($90-110k).

not sure what you mean by “Not sure your LX570 or 997 GT3 can perform as well as an R1T in all the above”. If I stall had my GT3 it would dominate a Rivian in every on road scenario other then 0-60. And my current LX is much better for towing and off road.

 

[SteinR1T]

My LX also lowers at speed (63mph) but does it via hydraulics with traditional springs instead of air springs. The hydraulic based adjustable suspensions are a far superior option to air but I’ve been told ~$5-10k more expensive, It’s why Lexus uses air on the GX ($55-65k) and hydraulic on the LX ($90-110k).

not sure what you mean by “Not sure your LX570 or 997 GT3 can perform as well as an R1T in all the above”. If I stall had my GT3 it would dominate a Rivian in every on road scenario other then 0-60. And my current LX is much better for towing and off road.

Ok then your LX is one of the most comfortable suspensions because it's hydraulic, not because it's coil springs....

As far as your claims for the LX outperforming the R1T in towing and off-road....how can you make those claims? And you proved my point....can either your LX or GT3 outperform the R1T in all the mentioned? You're comparing 2 vehicles designed for specific purposes....I can do them all well and get 70+ eMPG.

 

[@Boise]

Suspension aside Lordstown is a pipe dream.

 

[SteinR1T]

Suspension aside Lordstown is a pipe dream.

What makes it different than any other electric pickup? I see the in-hub motors, but I'm not sure what else sets them apart. Maybe cheaper price?

 

[ColeAK]

Ok then your LX is one of the most comfortable suspensions because it's hydraulic, not because it's coil springs....

As far as your claims for the LX outperforming the R1T in towing and off-road....how can you make those claims? And you proved my point....can either your LX or GT3 outperform the R1T in all the mentioned? You're comparing 2 vehicles designed for specific purposes....I can do them all well and get 70+ eMPG.

Off road, I can make those claims because the Toyota (Lexus) Landcruiser is the benchmark off-road/overland vehicle. It has been tried and tested for ~70 years at every corner of the globe. I’ve ridden in driven many cruisers that have 300, 400, 500k+ miles that have never been driven on road. The current version 200 series (my LX) has had a 14 year run with nothing but praise. But mostly because of the fast that with the rivian, stock you can not fit appropriate off road tires/wheels, for this reason alone there is validity in stating that the LC is better off road.

for towing, a bit more subjective. The Rivian can tow more weight, and honestly I think will so more competently and comfortably due to the superiority of EV drivetrains. But most people tow over distance, I would be lucky to get 80miles range towing my camper. Some day EVs will be much better tow vehicles but not until we have more energy dense batteries or at least a bunch better network of super chargers. I’ll add that When/if Tesla open up their network to non-teslas the Rivian will be a better tow vehicle.

 

[@Boise]

Off road, I can make those claims because the Toyota (Lexus) Landcruiser is the benchmark off-road/overland vehicle. It has been tried and tested for ~70 years at every corner of the globe. I’ve ridden in driven many cruisers that have 300, 400, 500k+ miles that have never been driven on road. The current version 200 series (my LX) has had a 14 year run with nothing but praise. But mostly because of the fast that with the rivian, stock you can not fit appropriate off road tires/wheels, for this reason alone there is validity in stating that the LC is better off road.

for towing, a bit more subjective. The Rivian can tow more weight, and honestly I think will so more competently and comfortably due to the superiority of EV drivetrains. But most people tow over distance, I would be lucky to get 80miles range towing my camper. Some day EVs will be much better tow vehicles but not until we have more energy dense batteries or at least a bunch better network of super chargers. I’ll add that When/if Tesla open up their network to non-teslas the Rivian will be a better tow vehicle.

My point is that Lordstown is not going to be a reality so nothing about it is worth debate.

 

[Joelster]

So this thing has hub motors? All that unsprung weight renders any any discussion of air vs coilover ride quality kinda moot.

 

[Riviano]

My point is that Lordstown is not going to be a reality so nothing about it is worth debate.

The Endurance is going into production this year with Foxconn acting as contract manufacturer for Lordstown Motors. Some VINs are already available for it.

Information regarding the 2023 LORDSTOWN ENDURANCE

Vehicle details for the 2023 LORDSTOWN ENDURANCE

dot.report

 

[ColeAK]

My point is that Lordstown is not going to be a reality so nothing about it is worth debate.

I agree with that. Pretty unlikely they will make it. At least with Rivian I feel worst case they would get bought out.

 

[ColeAK]

So this thing has hub motors? All that unsprung weight renders any any discussion of air vs coilover ride quality kinda moot.

I thought that as well all that I sprung weight should make it steer like a tank.