[EaglesPDX]

I really believe that excessively charging a BEV on a Level 3 charger, especially up to 100% SoC is far, far more likely to cause battery degradation

You do want to avoid a lot of fast DC charging. I see people do it when they don't have to, they have free charging so they're going to get their money's worth.

Two years of fast DC charging on the Tesla for 48,000 miles and 6% battery degradation. Depending on the DC chargers means you occasionally get below 10% (I've seen 0% pulling into charger). Likely twice the degradation I'd have seen if I had L2 every night and stayed between 10-85%.

 

[TessP100D]

Ahh, the natural fears from new EV owners! . Welcome to the family! Yes, phantom drain is normal. These cars condition / maintain themselves even while turned off. 3 miles per day actually isn't bad. Pre-warning, because you'll be back asking about it in 3-4 months, battery degradation is also very common. Hence, if you range right now says 300 miles, it will likely be 290 in a few months and will continue to decline very gradually over time. Great vehicles. You'll likely never be able to go back to ICE vehicles now. Enjoy the ride!

Which is the perfect reason to get the Max Pack.

 

[Jhawk]

You do want to avoid a lot of fast DC charging. I see people do it when they don't have to, they have free charging so they're going to get their money's worth.

Two years of fast DC charging on the Tesla for 48,000 miles and 6% battery degradation. Depending on the DC chargers means you occasionally get below 10% (I've seen 0% pulling into charger). Likely twice the degradation I'd have seen if I had L2 every night and stayed between 10-85%.

I have free supercharging for life on my 2013 Model S and I think on average over the last 5+ years I use maybe 5 sessions a year. My wife did just do a wild one day 600+ mile one day trip with 7 supercharger stops but that was definitely an anomaly. I even had a supercharger location installed 2mi from my office 3 years ago and I rarely used it even when I was going to the office every day.

My electricity cost at home is about $0.12/KWh. That’s roughly $0.04/mi of real world range. It just doesn’t make much sense to go out of my way to plug in and get a “free” dollar or two. The biggest joy of EV ownership for me is just plugging in at home and not even worrying about “do I need gas”. It’s a hard thing to convey to friends that have never owned an EV and they usually look at me like I’m crazy or some EV fanboy.

A word about degradation, it will happen so just prepare for it and don’t get anxiety every time a mile disappears. I think my 100% max range when I purchased my used Model S with 40k miles on the odometer was 251mi. Now 5+ years later with 114k miles it is at 220. I could say “oh my god I’ve lost 31mi”, but in real world driving it’s 20mi on a typical day. I rarely drive more than 100mi in a day so it should be fine for 90% of my trips well into the future. I still have ICE cars I can drive when I need to take a trip over 150mi. As soon as I can buy something like the max pack with 400mi on the dash I’ll be comfortable giving up my ICE cars. Give me my max pack!

 

[andrewg_hov]

I’ve seen some battery drain while it is sitting. A few things to consider:

• Turn off the air conditioning when parked
• Gear Guard if enabled also will eat some battery
• Proximity access with your phone will continuously unlock and lock the vehicle if you are in range.

Changing those settings might help drain less battery. At least this has been my experience since 4/1/22 when I took delivery.

 

[hazelnutz18]

I am losing range, about 3 miles per day or 1% of capacity, for each day my R1T is sitting in the garage not plugged in. Is this normal? Seems to be pretty consistent. Right now, it has to sit for about 2 weeks while I am out of town and it seems I will see quite a drop in range over that time. Fortunately, I left it at 70% charged.

Are others seeing this as well?

I am in Philadelphia and took delivery in mid March. I was losing 8-10 miles per day when sitting. I tried gear guard off and no difference. It had been coldish (40's) but it definitely seemed wrong to loose that much. I also had some issues charging e.g. they would kick off after 15 min or charging at 110V wouldn't add anything to the battery even after 12 hours of the vehicle saying it was charging. I was planning on discussing with Rivian and possibly doing a reset but hadn't gotten around to it yet.

I finally had a successful charging session at 110V (my 240V charger isn't installed yet). It was plugged in for 6 hours and didn't take a charge then from hours 6-14 it added 20 miles. I just did 530 miles over the course of 2 days using fast chargers (50kW - 150kW) driving from PA to NC. I left the truck in the hotel parking lot with gear guard on and when I went out in the morning it lost 0 miles. That was the first night it didn't drain at all. Last night same thing, no loss. Not sure what happened during the trip but it seems fixed now. I still plan to chat with Rivian next week about it.

 

[RivianNoob]

Shipping mode sounds like a great setting for an airport. But I wonder if that turns everything off, like the alarm.

Yes it does turn off gear guard alarm

 

[OverSurge]

Same here. The I-Pace has negligible phantom drain; one owner recently reported 3% over 4.5 months of inactivity. In fairness, that's because it doesn't have sentry mode, and it stops communicating OTA after ca. 100 hours of being locked.

I'm glad you said this. I read this all the time in all the different forums with users comparing Teslas to other EVs that don't have sentry mode (Gearguard in Rivians case), cabin overheat protection (which kicks on a lot here in south Florida), and smart preconditioning (which will come on based on your driving preferences even if you don't drive it. I encourage Tesla drivers to turn this off.).
Plus everyone loves playing with their apps and constantly waking the vehicles ups.

I know a lot of owners on here are in the tech industry, so you're already going to know this, but it should still be said and reminded.

For people to say a good EV car wouldn't have phantom drain is just making statements without full understanding of the technology and aren't doing true apples to apples comparison. More advanced EV cars are most likely going to have more phantom drain than more entry level EVs because they are doing a lot more and have a lot more always running features. I believe @thebishman and @CommodoreAmiga (BTW love that name I had one of those YEARS ago) aren't making fair comparison statements. All EVs are computers that are constantly on and simply entering sleep mode when we aren't using them. It's no different than when you install a bunch of background processes on a laptop that are capable of running in sleep mode. They require more power to run and drain your laptop batteries even while it's asleep. The more "features" that get added to laptops / EV's the more phantom drain is going to occur. Running every single camera constantly and recording constantly takes energy (Gear Guard / Sentry Mode). Monitoring the internal temperature of the vehicle at all times and automatically turning the A/C on throughout the day takes energy (Especially the a/c itself). Sending constant vehicle data to the cloud for the app to have available at all times takes energy. Being able to detect you just walked up to the vehicle with a bluetooth device and automatically unlock the door takes energy (Not all EVs do this). It's not possible to have all these "features" running constantly and not have phantom drain.

Now I know people will now debate how much energy these functions "should" be using vs are, but that's another conversation. The key point of my post is to highlight the fact that EV's are computers with wheels. They are on all the time. Higher end EVs often come with a lot more always on processes/features than entry level EVs. So measuring the quality of an EV by phantom drain is real science. Measuring the individual drain of each individual feature would be true science and measure of quality. Does Gear Guard use more or less energy than Sentry Mode. Does bluetooth monitoring use more or less. etc.

As mentioned in some of the posts. You can TRULY hard power down an EV car and stop phantom drain, but you also won't be able to pull it up on your app or interact with your vehicle, or have security on since the computer is hard off and very few background processes are running.

Oh.. P.S. Full discloser. I am a Tesla owner, but I am very capable of hating on them just like the next person. I'm not much of a brands guy. I measure all things on their merit, not it's brand. There are some things great about Tesla, there are something not so great. I've owed Fords, Acuras, Hondas, Mitsubishis, Lexus, etc. etc. I buy based on the individual vehicles offering, not a brand.

 

[thebishman]

OverSurge,

Thanks for your insightful post. I agree that vehicles, but especially BEVs are computers on wheels. It is advantageous to be able to have an excellent security system constantly active; being able to keep the cabin at a certain temperature; an active app that communicates useful information, etc. until it isn’t such as getting to the airport with a 60% SOC and leaving the country for 4 weeks and not knowing how much SOC you’ll have when you return.
My etron for example will have a robust security system active but no cameras constantly recording when parked and locked, and doesn’t attempt to keep the cabin at a certain temp; (not sure you’d need this when you can start the car remotely when you land back at the airport so the temperature is at the set point by the time you get to the car), and the app doesn’t seem to damage the SOC at all. As I’ve said before, parked for three weeks iirc my SOC lost about 2%.

I’m not familiar with the Tesla firmware as I’ve never been that interested in buying one for various reasons, and perhaps it is simple to shut down everything when parked for a long time except the security system, but an owner needs to have that choice I’d think.

 

[groon]

This is an interesting discussion. I've noticed that my r1t typically loses on order of 10 miles range overnight, even with gear guard and proximity unlocking switched off. Also pretty mild weather so it seems like temperature control wouldn't have to be active.. my question is, is this more of a recalibration of the range indicator than an actual use of power? Is it really a couple hundred watts of background processes? Seems like a lot even for a computer on wheels. My laptop is much more efficient than that.

Anyway if it really is background processes hopefully further software optimization can cut some of this down.

The range estimate when driving has been impressively accurate by the way. Just drove across town to a sporting event last night - about 60 miles round-trip mostly freeway and it was accurate to within 1 mile.

 

[OverSurge]

OverSurge,

Thanks for your insightful post. I agree that vehicles, but especially BEVs are computers on wheels. It is advantageous to be able to have an excellent security system constantly active; being able to keep the cabin at a certain temperature; an active app that communicates useful information, etc. until it isn’t such as getting to the airport with a 60% SOC and leaving the country for 4 weeks and not knowing how much SOC you’ll have when you return.
My etron for example will have a robust security system active but no cameras constantly recording when parked and locked, and doesn’t attempt to keep the cabin at a certain temp; (not sure you’d need this when you can start the car remotely when you land back at the airport so the temperature is at the set point by the time you get to the car), and the app doesn’t seem to damage the SOC at all. As I’ve said before, parked for three weeks iirc my SOC lost about 2%.

I’m not familiar with the Tesla firmware as I’ve never been that interested in buying one for various reasons, and perhaps it is simple to shut down everything when parked for a long time except the security system, but an owner needs to have that choice I’d think.

Yes, with the Tesla you have the option to make it behave like an eTron. All of those features can be turned off if you have concerns of battery availability after going out of country. It’s nice to have those features for everyday usage. There is just a learning curve to owning an EV and unfortunately a lot of us have had some tough lessons. But as you own one, you’re EV planning mind grows and you learn to plan ahead, charge in advance, and disable features when needing to park unplugged for long periods of time. I think that’s the theme of most of the responses on the thread. If planning ahead is not for you, then EVs in general may not be for you. As size of batteries continues to grow, these things become less concerning. If you drive 50 miles to airport, run all features for 2 weeks losing 5o miles of charge on a 500 mile battery you won’t really care. You’ve still got 400 miles of battery waiting for you. (Though drain is money.) my first EV only has 160. So phantom burn was more concerning and stressful. Today I don’t even pay attention to it.

Oh, and the cabin protection feature isn’t about entering a cool car. It’s about protecting the interior materials in the car. Plastics, materials, electronics, glues, etc. don’t really like 180 degree temperatures. They will wear faster when constantly exposed to those temperatures. The feature keeps Tesla cabins from going above 105 degrees. Most Tesla owners tint their windows and then turn it off. It’s not worth spending money to keep the cabin from extreme heat. But again, it’s nice to have the feature. You just need to know it’s there and can be turned off.

You use the app to cook the car before entering. Even with protection on, your car is going to be 105 degrees.

 

[TessP100D]

This is an interesting discussion. I've noticed that my r1t typically loses on order of 10 miles range overnight, even with gear guard and proximity unlocking switched off. Also pretty mild weather so it seems like temperature control wouldn't have to be active.. my question is, is this more of a recalibration of the range indicator than an actual use of power? Is it really a couple hundred watts of background processes? Seems like a lot even for a computer on wheels. My laptop is much more efficient than that.

Anyway if it really is background processes hopefully further software optimization can cut some of this down.

The range estimate when driving has been impressively accurate by the way. Just drove across town to a sporting event last night - about 60 miles round-trip mostly freeway and it was accurate to within 1 mile.

This is another example why range maters. EV’s are different. Range is King

 

[OverSurge]

This is another example why range maters. EV’s are different. Range is King

It will be interesting to see if this improves over time with software updates. That does seem high with all features turned off.

 

[ColeAK]

I thinking about it the Tesla forums were full of these type posts every time a new model was released and a whole new crowd bought EVs that had not owned one before. When I got my S in 2014 almost every post was about range lost, lost from rain, lost from cold, lost while sitting,…. Same thing happened but at much larger scale when the 3 came out. And I switched to the model 3 forums when I sold my S and bought a 3 in 2018. Now we are seeing the same thing on here.

my thoughts. First not sure if the rivian has a setting for this (tesla does) change the battery meter from range to %. % doesn’t fluctuate nearly as much as as miles/km and the rated range is really pointless when it comes to day to day driving. Also other things battery powered done use units of distance or time they use %. Think about how crazy it would be if your phone battery meter was in talk time, # of texts, or time watching YouTube. Next ICE cars fuel gage isn’t done by range but % so why with EVs? I get it when they first came out no one understood them but now, we’ve had widely available EVs for >10 years. I guess what I’m saying is I hope soon we transition to talking about EVs in terms of battery size (KWh) and rated effeciency (Wh/mi, Wh/km) and the battery meters all just read %.

Think about it these trucks are basically large smart phones with motors and wheels. When my iPhone sits for two days turned on without me using it loses up to 5%.

 

[ColeAK]

Last thing I’ll mention on this topic for now. When you get your first EV do you need to forget everything you knew about fueling vehicles. The main reason is now you have the ability to fuel at home or at work while you’re parked. So forget the whole concept of let it run down to a certain point and then refill it. Every time you have the opportunity plug it in. I tell people think of it more how you charge your phone then how you gas your car. Every time you get home for the day just plug it in and the only time you’ll ever think about recharging is on long trips.

 

[sciencegeek]

Last thing I’ll mention on this topic for now. When you get your first EV do you need to forget everything you knew about fueling vehicles. The main reason is now you have the ability to fuel at home or at work while you’re parked. So forget the whole concept of let it run down to a certain point and then refill it. Every time you have the opportunity plug it in. I tell people think of it more how you charge your phone then how you gas your car. Every time you get home for the day just plug it in and the only time you’ll ever think about recharging is on long trips.

I can see how that works for you, having a garaged car. For me it's a bit of a hassle to plug in (car is in the driveway, charging unit is in garage) so I noodle it down to 20% or so and bring it back up to 90% or 100% overnight. Also, in some places electrons are more expensive during the day than at night so it makes sense to charge overnight for that reason. And then we have the urban crowd that may not be able to charge at home, so needs to charge at work or whenever convenient.

To me the big difference is that you just don't have to go to a stupid smelly gas station, usually somewhat out of the way; instead you charge whenever however wherever works for you. If you charge at home or at work, you actually save time charging (vs getting gas). Only on a road trip does it take more time to fuel up an EV. People tend to forget that.

 

[O. horridus]

Think about it these trucks are basically large smart phones with motors and wheels. When my iPhone sits for two days turned on without me using it loses up to 5%.

This is all true, but there's a huge difference between 250 milliwatt hours lost (5% of a 1400 mAh battery @ 3.7 volts) and 6.75 kilowatt hours lost (5% of a 135 kWh battery). The standby power for the computer systems should be hundreds of milliwatts, not hundreds of watts. Specially designed electronics can even have standby power measured in microwatts.

6.75 kWh is close to what my entire house uses in a day. This is far in excess of what a vehicle on standby should be using. All this indicates that the vehicle really isn't in standby, but is actively doing something. Perhaps cabin climate control, or battery temperature heating/cooling, which consume much more power than computer electronics. Whether that's because of proximity to a phone key or a faulty sensor or a bad programming logic or all of the above remains to be seen, but I'm certain these issues will eventually be improved with an OTA update.

 

[TessP100D]

I can see how that works for you, having a garaged car. For me it's a bit of a hassle to plug in (car is in the driveway, charging unit is in garage) so I noodle it down to 20% or so and bring it back up to 90% or 100% overnight. Also, in some places electrons are more expensive during the day than at night so it makes sense to charge overnight for that reason. And then we have the urban crowd that may not be able to charge at home, so needs to charge at work or whenever convenient.

To me the big difference is that you just don't have to go to a stupid smelly gas station, usually somewhat out of the way; instead you charge whenever however wherever works for you. If you charge at home or at work, you actually save time charging (vs getting gas). Only on a road trip does it take more time to fuel up an EV. People tend to forget that.

Why don’t you just park your car in the garage ? I do. It’s easy

 

[OverSurge]

I’ve got the longer cable, so I park outside the garage and still charge. Garage still closes. I also use the scheduling feature to only charge at night when rates are cheaper.

 

[TessP100D]

I’ve got the longer cable, so I park outside the garage and still charge. Garage still closes. I also use the scheduling feature to only charge at night when rates are cheaper.

Sounds good. Where I live it to hot to leave a Tesla outside.

 

[thebishman]

This is an interesting discussion. I've noticed that my r1t typically loses on order of 10 miles range overnight, even with gear guard and proximity unlocking switched off. Also pretty mild weather so it seems like temperature control wouldn't have to be active.. my question is, is this more of a recalibration of the range indicator than an actual use of power? Is it really a couple hundred watts of background processes? Seems like a lot even for a computer on wheels. My laptop is much more efficient than that.

Anyway if it really is background processes hopefully further software optimization can cut some of this down.

The range estimate when driving has been impressively accurate by the way. Just drove across town to a sporting event last night - about 60 miles round-trip mostly freeway and it was accurate to within 1 mile.

Are U parking outside at night and is the morning temp substantially lower than when you parked? It might just be the GoM telling you you have less range since when you start up in the morning its much cooler.

Is the SoC % actually lower?