[GSam]

For those of you who have owned an EV before, how many have had an EV longer than 10 years? What happens to the battery and is the car junk once the battery is dead? In trying to determine whether to pay $10k for the max pack and assuming it becomes available on the R1S at some point, it is worth spending another $10k for me if it means I will keep the car for another 2-3 years because it has 33% more battery capacity. Sorry for some of these more basic questions. TIA.

 

[SANZCO2]

For those of you who have owned an EV before, how many have had an EV longer than 10 years? What happens to the battery and is the car junk once the battery is dead? In trying to determine whether to pay $10k for the max pack and assuming it becomes available on the R1S at some point, it is worth spending another $10k for me if it means I will keep the car for another 2-3 years because it has 33% more battery capacity. Sorry for some of these more basic questions. TIA.

The batteries are replaceable. I saw an article where someone struck a rock in a model 3 and destroyed the battery. It was 16K to replace it (13.5K for the batter and 2.3K for labor). The Rivian battery is a bit larger so may be a little more but cost may come down a little over time as mfg processing becomes more efficient. Based on that, is it worth the 10K to you for the larger pack?

I've had my Tesla for 5+ years. The first couple of years I went from max range of 239 down to 230. Since then the last time I did a full charge it was at 224 so in 5+ years I lost 15 miles of range ( about 6%).

The Rivian has a warranty for 8 years that it will have 70% of the capacity left, if they are setting the warranty at 70% then they must expect 85% as they would not cut that margin to close where they would expect it to actually kick in.

 

[Wildabeest]

For reasons of degradation over time, I’d say no it’s not worth it. In fact, if the battery gets damaged and not covered under warrantee, your out all that extra money. So in my opinion you should really just be looking at do you need that extra 100 miles of range or not now. The charging infrastructure will be unimaginably more built out 10 years from now, so range will be much less of an issue then.

 

[GSam]

Let me know if my concern makes sense. I'm not so worried about day-to-day. I probably drive 80 miles roundtrip once COVID is over. So, as long as I slow charge it overnight, I will be fine. I'm wondering more on long trips. We have two 5 year olds now. So, how long will we drive on road trips without stopping and how many road trips will we actually take in a given year? I have a heavy foot. So, I figure I'll be doing between 70-80 meaning I will likely have to stop every three hours. Really, I think the extra 100 mpc would come into play on road trips. So, how often would I really need it? Pre-kids, I preferred to drive about 4 hours without stopping. I am not so sure if that is reasonable now that I am in my mid-40s but some of you parents may have a better clue as to how often you need to stop - potty breaks, barf breaks, and then charging breaks. Also, I do not envision my family and I going into the deep unknowns in this vehicle. We may drive to the Grand Canyon and National and State Parks.

 

[Wildabeest]

It’s counterintuitive, but it’s often better and faster overall to stop more often and take on less charge than trying to charge to the max and then run the battery way down before stopping again, This is due to the fact that the charging will slow as the battery fills up. This is usually referred to as “taper”. My Tesla has horrible taper, so on longer trips (my longest is 40 hrs NC->UT stopping only for charging) I hit pretty much every supercharger and only take on enough charge to get me to the next one. Doing that reduces the total amount of time I spend charging during the trip, ultimately reducing the total time for the trip even though I have more stops.

We’ll have to wait and see what Rivian’s taper rates look like. Hopefully they are more like some of the other newer EVs and less like Tesla in that regard.

I’ve driven an EV for 6 years and do lots of long trips. I am not planning to get the max pack, even though one of my frequent trips has a charging gap that neither Rivian nor Electrify America has current plans to fill. I could make it with the 400 mi battery, but likely not with the 300. I’ll need to divert an hour out of my way to charge with the 300 mile pack, but I’m hoping that’s only a temporary issue and someone will eventually build a charger in the gap. I’d rather lose the hour and keep the $10,000 until then.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

My Tesla has horrible taper, so on longer trips (my longest is 40 hrs NC->UT stopping only for charging) I hit pretty much every supercharger and only take on enough charge to get me to the next one.

My concern with this is what if the "next" charger is busy/blocked/not-working?

I’d rather lose the hour and keep the $10,000 until then.

Ideally I'd love to save the $10k... But if I'm not 100% confident with the 300 mile pack by the time my guide contacts me, I think paying the $10k at least ensures I'll be as happy as possible with my Rivian. By once, cry once.

 

[Wildabeest]

My concern with this is what if the "next" charger is busy/blocked/not-working?

In 6 years, I’ve only had that happen twice. Once was a 2000+ mile trip driving through the night. Supercharger was in a hotel parking lot (as many are) and some jacknut pulling a trailer decided that all 8 supercharger bays were put there so he could park his trailer in front of them ALL. I took a 4 hr nap and when I woke up he was gone. Other time was more recently the supercharger in SLC was completely full. Had to wait about 10 mins for a bay to open up. That’s the one and only time I’ve stopped at a supercharger and it was full. I know there are issues in big cities with that, but I tend to avoid big cities if at all possible.

 

[Wildabeest]

Ideally I'd love to save the $10k... But if I'm not 100% confident with the 300 mile pack by the time my guide contacts me, I think paying the $10k at least ensures I'll be as happy as possible with my Rivian. By once, cry once.

Yep. It’s all about perceived “value”, which is a very individual thing. It sure would be easier to make those value assessments, though, if we had more info! 😂

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

In 6 years, I’ve only had that happen twice. Once was a 2000+ mile trip driving through the night. Supercharger was in a hotel parking lot (as many are) and some jacknut pulling a trailer decided that all 8 supercharger bays were put there so he could park his trailer in front of them ALL. I took a 4 hr nap and when I woke up he was gone. Other time was more recently the supercharger in SLC was completely full. Had to wait about 10 mins for a bay to open up. That’s the one and only time I’ve stopped at a supercharger and it was full. I know there are issues in big cities with that, but I tend to avoid big cities if at all possible.

I hear EA has much more frequent charging issues compared to the Tesla SCs.

 

[eHauler]

It'll be interesting to see what about the chargers we can use that Rivian will tell us. I rather not have to jump around apps to get a clear idea but that might still be required to some extent.

 

[Yossarian]

It’s counterintuitive, but it’s often better and faster overall to stop more often and take on less charge than trying to charge to the max and then run the battery way down before stopping again, This is due to the fact that the charging will slow as the battery fills up. This is usually referred to as “taper”. My Tesla has horrible taper, so on longer trips (my longest is 40 hrs NC->UT stopping only for charging) I hit pretty much every supercharger and only take on enough charge to get me to the next one. Doing that reduces the total amount of time I spend charging during the trip, ultimately reducing the total time for the trip even though I have more stops.

We’ll have to wait and see what Rivian’s taper rates look like. Hopefully they are more like some of the other newer EVs and less like Tesla in that regard.

I’ve driven an EV for 6 years and do lots of long trips. I am not planning to get the max pack, even though one of my frequent trips has a charging gap that neither Rivian nor Electrify America has current plans to fill. I could make it with the 400 mi battery, but likely not with the 300. I’ll need to divert an hour out of my way to charge with the 300 mile pack, but I’m hoping that’s only a temporary issue and someone will eventually build a charger in the gap. I’d rather lose the hour and keep the $10,000 until then.

It's great to hear that you do NYC to UT in your Tesla right now without much drama. We drive to the Wasatch every ski season from the Philly area and my biggest worry about an EV are the charging deserts in the Plains states. It looks like you overcome that obstacle by detouring, but driving in the winter will eat into range, and I'd worry that without something like the Max battery pack, the trip could become an almost insurmountable range challenge. Though I'm not looking forward to shelling out $10k for the Max package, until the charging network is more built out, I can't see much of an alternative.

I also plan to retire this year, and hope to haul my [email protected] Boondock both north (as in to Canada) and west during non-ski season. The trailer is light and relatively aerodynamic, but will still reduce range. The stretches in Canada without chargers are larger and more numerous than in the States, so again, no real alternative to the Max pack.

 

[Wildabeest]

It's great to hear that you do NYC to UT in your Tesla right now without much drama. We drive to the Wasatch every ski season from the Philly area and my biggest worry about an EV are the charging deserts in the Plains states. It looks like you overcome that obstacle by detouring, but driving in the winter will eat into range, and I'd worry that without something like the Max battery pack, the trip could become an almost insurmountable range challenge.

With Tesla, there aren’t any deserts anymore as they have coverage on all major east/west freeways. Non-Tesla does have major deserts in the Dakotas, WY, MT. But you could catch I-80 just south of Chicago, drop down town Denver on I-76 at the northeast corner of CO and then take I-70 into UT. It’ll take a bit longer, and you’ll be doing more mountain driving than if you just blew thru WY on I-80, but it’s manageable. In winter, you’ll be exposed to different but equally tricky weather issues on either route. Rivian has plans to cover I-80 in WY, and Electrify America just announced plans to expand into WY (although they haven’t disclosed specific locations yet like Rivian has). So it’s a temporary problem. Likely next ski season will be the last without I-80 coverage.

Edit: looks like I-70 is your best route fromPhilly, and the longest stretched are actually in PA, not the plains states. Max leg on this trip is 201 miles.

 

[EVnow!]

I also plan to retire this year, and hope to haul my [email protected] Boondock both north (as in to Canada) and west during non-ski season. The trailer is light and relatively aerodynamic, but will still reduce range.

I picked up the biggest [email protected] last year, a 400 Boondock, and I lose about 30% of my range on an ICE vehicle with literally half the rated towing capacity of the R1T. I am assuming a similar loss with the Rivian however, if a full 11,000 lb load is expected to reduce range by 50%, even though the [email protected] only comes in at 3,500 lbs. I’m hoping I’m being conservative, and my 300+ pack only drops to a 200+ pack...😬

 

[Yossarian]

I picked up the biggest [email protected] last year, a 400 Boondock, and I lose about 30% of my range on an ICE vehicle with literally half the rated towing capacity of the R1T. I am assuming a similar loss with the Rivian however, if a full 11,000 lb load is expected to reduce range by 50%, even though the [email protected] only comes in at 3,500 lbs. I’m hoping I’m being conservative, and my 300+ pack only drops to a 200+ pack...😬

With the 400 being much lighter and more aero than the Rivian test trailer, I'd hope that range losses are no greater than 25% (and I hope less than that with my smaller 320). Even so, that means that starting out with 90% SOC and targeting no lower than 10% for recharge, you will really have a effective range of about 180 miles. That may be enough in a few years when the charging network is more widespread, but I think would be anxiety-producing until then. My rough range estimate for an R1T (or S) with the Max, using the 90/10 scenario and calculating in a 25% reduction due to hauling the [email protected], is 230 miles. Still not great, but a bit less anxiety producing than with the 300 mi battery pack.

 

[Yossarian]

. . . Non-Tesla does have major deserts in the Dakotas, WY, MT. But you could catch I-80 just south of Chicago, drop down town Denver on I-76 at the northeast corner of CO and then take I-70 into UT. It’ll take a bit longer, and you’ll be doing more mountain driving than if you just blew thru WY on I-80, but it’s manageable. In winter, you’ll be exposed to different but equally tricky weather issues on either route. . . .
Rivian has plans to cover I-80 in WY, and Electrify America just announced plans to expand into WY (although they haven’t disclosed specific locations yet like Rivian has). So it’s a temporary problem. Likely next ski season will be the last without I-80 coverage.

We've had to detour off of various intertates due to blizzard conditions nearly every time we've headed west (we have had Ikon passes the last few years, so typically do a CO resort, then JHMR or Big Sky before heading to the Cottonwoods). The detours are always much more challenging than the Interstate - the time we had to go up and over Loveland Pass when I-70 shut down was one for the record books. My worry about the detours in an EV is that the combination of cold weather and snow will eat range dramatically with few if any opportunities to recharge. That could mean trying to find a (dog friendly) motel, hunkering down there for 24 hours or so and hoping the manager is OK with me running an extension cord out the window to the Rivian . . .

 

[Wildabeest]

We've had to detour off of various intertates due to blizzard conditions nearly every time we've headed west (we have had Ikon passes the last few years, so typically do a CO resort, then JHMR or Big Sky before heading to the Cottonwoods). The detours are always much more challenging than the Interstate - the time we had to go up and over Loveland Pass when I-70 shut down was one for the record books. My worry about the detours in an EV is that the combination of cold weather and snow will eat range dramatically with few if any opportunities to recharge. That could mean trying to find a (dog friendly) motel, hunkering down there for 24 hours or so and hoping the manager is OK with me running an extension cord out the window to the Rivian . . .

The cold does have an impact - maybe 20% or so. If chargers are 200 miles or less apart then you should still be OK with 300 mile battery. But so,e people are just going to be more comfortable with the max pack, and that’s cool.

I-80 thru Way gets shut down more due to weather than I-70 because it’s so exposed. When that happens, it’s generally not a good idea to divert onto secondary roads. Those are just as bad, and usually put you in the middle of nowhere with sketchy cell service such that if goes wrong it could get serious fast. Better to just sit tight and wait for the interstate to,open. Been there, done that several times. I-70 is generally just a nightmare due to traffic more so than shutting down. I love Big a sky, but the road around West Yellowstone can get pretty sketchy as well. Especially when there’s a herd of Buffalo blocking it.

 

[Yossarian]

. . . Better to just sit tight and wait for the interstate to,open. Been there, done that several times.

We had to "sit tight" in WY one year when I-80 shut down for 3 days. We were lucky in that we were west of the storm & closures, so just drove back to JH. The hotel was happy to have us back as the blizzard caused a ton of cancellations. No complaints on that one though - if you have to be stuck somewhere, you could hardly do better than Jackson.

 

[Schuhouse]

It's great to hear that you do NYC to UT in your Tesla right now without much drama. We drive to the Wasatch every ski season from the Philly area and my biggest worry about an EV are the charging deserts in the Plains states. It looks like you overcome that obstacle by detouring, but driving in the winter will eat into range, and I'd worry that without something like the Max battery pack, the trip could become an almost insurmountable range challenge. Though I'm not looking forward to shelling out $10k for the Max package, until the charging network is more built out, I can't see much of an alternative.

I also plan to retire this year, and hope to haul my [email protected] Boondock both north (as in to Canada) and west during non-ski season. The trailer is light and relatively aerodynamic, but will still reduce range. The stretches in Canada without chargers are larger and more numerous than in the States, so again, no real alternative to the Max pack.

I am there now. We want an EV to tow our Airstream Basecamp 16..3500lbs loaded... I am starting to consider the Tesla X simply for the charging network, even though the specs on the Rivian look better...

 

[Yossarian]

I am there now. We want an EV to tow our Airstream Basecamp 16..3500lbs loaded... I am starting to consider the Tesla X simply for the charging network, even though the specs on the Rivian look better...

I actually have a pre-order in for the Tesla CT as well as for Rivian, kind of hedging my bet.

The looks of the CT really turn me off, but it is good value for money and as you point out the Tesla charging network is attractive. While the SS exterior is appealing, the awful styling and Tesla's myriad quality problems make the odds of me actually taking delivery of a CT pretty remote.

 

[Sparky]

For reasons of degradation over time, I’d say no it’s not worth it. In fact, if the battery gets damaged and not covered under warrantee, your out all that extra money. So in my opinion you should really just be looking at do you need that extra 100 miles of range or not now. The charging infrastructure will be unimaginably more built out 10 years from now, so range will be much less of an issue then.

This is why leasing a electric vehicle and have one as a second vehicle may be a wiser decision.