[Bgrable]

I’m an early 2021 preorder holder. I’ve had a max pack configured since I placed my deposit and have been committed to it. I have felt like I need the extra range for towing a wake boat (about 7k lbs with trailer).
I’m now questioning it. I always thought 100 miles for $10k was steep. If the current federal tax bill passed my configuration will no longer qualify for the $7500 rebate. Now it’s 100 miles for $17500?
To further complicate my decision I’m realizing 99% of the time a usable range of 100 miles while towing would be adequate and after talking with CS today I’m more and more convinced that the Max Pack is still in the design phase with no intention of production in meaningful numbers before 2024 and that’s “if” things go well.
Can’t believe I’m even hearing myself say it, but I think I’m leaning toward switching to the large pack. Curious what others thoughts are.

 

[BrianGoodwin]

I was a Max Pack order, gave up on that to drive the truck now.

No regrets, enjoying the truck daily. Particularly after getting the home charger installed the range thing is really only relevant for when we tow and we don't tow that often. Thus, 99 percent of the time the 'Large' battery is serving 100 percent of our range needs and it cost less, weighs less, and we are driving it now. Can any of us really separate 'range anxiety' from rational consideration of what range we actually need? I agree the question is difficult to answer, rationalizations are endless in our brains, but perhaps 99 percent of us really can live with 300 miles of range instead of 400? So far, daily reality is that 300 is enough for us.

 

[jbronko1]

I'm 90% inclined to wait for my Max Pack but the devil on my shoulder is poking me to switch to the Large Pack.
For me, if I got the Max pack before the end of 2023, that's fair. I ordered it 11/2021.
But I too struggle with the value of the extra 100 miles. The $10k is worth it to me since we are getting launch pricing--I feel like that's a great deal. As for the rebate, a bummer, but out of our control.
It's true that the vast majority of times, I won't need the extra 100 miles. But if it's really 18 months away, I'm happy to wait. I can imagine weekend trips when an extra 75 to 100 miles will really matter. I feel like a 5 hour trip is a normal driving range for a weekend trip. Throw in highway speed driving, AC or heat, a 1500lb travel trailer, bikes, SUP, kayaks. So I think that's a 4 hour trip without worrying much about charging until I get there or the halfway point that I could hit on the way there or back. With the Large Pack, that's likely only 200 miles instead of 300 (with all that stuff).

It is a bit irrational to delay getting the truck and spending $10k when it's probably an issue only 10 days a year, but I do feel like I wouldn't have an issue with the Max Pack in 9 of those 10 days a year. Having never had an EV, the reduced stress seems worth the $, especially as the battery degrades over time.
I go back and forth but keep ending up back at all is good as long as I get it by end of 2023. I wish I knew the answer on timing for sure tho.

 

[Wsb2001]

I’m waiting. My 2006 ICE truck is holding on by a thread. I think the extra range will be worth the wait.

 

[sciencegeek]

I understand that people who regularly tow need the Max Pack.

For most others, Large Pack range is just fine and in most road trip scenarios Max Pack would not actually save you any time.

 

[Yossarian]

I’m an early 2021 preorder holder. I’ve had a max pack configured since I placed my deposit and have been committed to it. I have felt like I need the extra range for towing a wake boat (about 7k lbs with trailer).
I’m now questioning it. I always thought 100 miles for $10k was steep. If the current federal tax bill passed my configuration will no longer qualify for the $7500 rebate. Now it’s 100 miles for $17500?
To further complicate my decision I’m realizing 99% of the time a usable range of 100 miles while towing would be adequate and after talking with CS today I’m more and more convinced that the Max Pack is still in the design phase with no intention of production in meaningful numbers before 2024 and that’s “if” things go well.
Can’t believe I’m even hearing myself say it, but I think I’m leaning toward switching to the large pack. Curious what others thoughts are.

My pre-order dates to mid-2020, and my reservation is for the Max configuration, with the need to tow being the main reason. Though I tow only a few times a year, and the load is small (a teardrop camper of only about 2,000 lbs), it's usually over long distances, and to more remote places. Ten years down the road, when the charging network is ubiquitous and robust, the Max will become a nice to have option. Until then, it's pretty close to essential. I'd also argue that the extra capacity of the Max is pretty much essential in extreme weather, particularly the cold; this is likely to be the case regardless of how ubiquitous or robust the charging network becomes.

I'm reasonably certain that the Max pack is well beyond the design phase and is ready for production. That said, I agree wholeheartedly that Rivian will not begin delivery of Max Pack equipped pick-ups in meaningful numbers until late 2023, at the earliest and likely not until 2024. I've posted multiple times going back many months about why I believe that this is the case, so won't go into that here, but will say that the news from Rivian to date serves only to bolster that belief. The larger battery pack for the R1S, no longer called the Max by Rivian, is likely still in the design phase however. What it's capacity will be, and when it will go into production is anyone's guess.

The tax credit situation is regrettable, particularly for me as the R1T Max I have configured is only $1,500 over the $80k threshold. I've already been given access to the R1T Shop, and have been assigned a guide, I think to try and persuade me to change my order. The R1T LR is really a non-starter though, and I will not be changing my reservation.

 

[Bgrable]

I’m waiting. My 2006 ICE truck is holding on by a thread. I think the extra range will be worth the wait.

Range and wait I agree with. I struggle with the cost/value ratio. Unless you’re someone like Yossarian who will regularly tow long distances in remote settings with extreme conditions I question whether it’s worth it especially when losing the fed tax credit.

 

[Bgrable]

My pre-order dates to mid-2020, and my reservation is for the Max configuration, with the need to tow being the main reason. Though I tow only a few times a year, and the load is small (a teardrop camper of only about 2,000 lbs), it's usually over long distances, and to more remote places. Ten years down the road, when the charging network is ubiquitous and robust, the Max will become a nice to have option. Until then, it's pretty close to essential. I'd also argue that the extra capacity of the Max is pretty much essential in extreme weather, particularly the cold; this is likely to be the case regardless of how ubiquitous or robust the charging network becomes.

I'm reasonably certain that the Max pack is well beyond the design phase and is ready for production. That said, I agree wholeheartedly that Rivian will not begin delivery of Max Pack equipped pick-ups in meaningful numbers until late 2023, at the earliest and likely not until 2024. I've posted multiple times going back many months about why I believe that this is the case, so won't go into that here, but will say that the news from Rivian to date serves only to bolster that belief. The larger battery pack for the R1S, no longer called the Max by Rivian, is likely still in the design phase however. What it's capacity will be, and when it will go into production is anyone's guess.

The tax credit situation is regrettable, particularly for me as the R1T Max I have configured is only $1,500 over the $80k threshold. I've already been given access to the R1T Shop, and have been assigned a guide, I think to try and persuade me to change my order. The R1T LR is really a non-starter though, and I will not be changing my reservation.

I’ve followed many of your posts and am not surprised you wouldn’t consider changing battery configurations. You seem to be one of the few who truly need that extra range on a regular basis to make even owning a Rivian feasible. The more I think about it the more sure I am that I don’t fit that category. It would be nice, probably worth 10k, but pretty sure it’s not worth 17.5k for my use purposes.

 

[jbronko1]

Unless you’re someone like Yossarian who will regularly tow long distances in remote settings with extreme conditions I question whether it’s worth it especially when losing the fed tax credit.

I don't make the income limit for the credit, but my wife and I file separately and she does. I wonder if I could have her be the actual purchaser AND downgrade to the large pack. Because then we are talking about $17k and that is definitely a lot of money for the 7 or 8 times a year it would matter. But I'm tortured by worrying about battery degrading over time, cold weather, towing a trailer + gear totaling 2000lbs....that 300 range could easily be 200 on day 1 with that load in colder weather with the heat on, and materially less 5 years down the line. Tough call. Have heard some really good results from conserve mode though, for those times when it's necessary. Decisions...

 

[Nuclianba]

The tax credit situation is regrettable, particularly for me as the R1T Max I have configured is only $1,500 over the $80k threshold. I've already been given access to the R1T Shop, and have been assigned a guide, I think to try and persuade me to change my order. The R1T LR is really a non-starter though, and I will not be changing my reservation.

If you have a guide, you're presumably in the same boat as me (max pack, late 2019)... Did you sign your preliminary buyers agreement? If so, you're grandfathered in to the prior tax credit (assuming the language in the law holds through passage). That's a key reason I'm going to keep my max reservation... Locked pricing and grandfathered tax credit (again only if you have a guide and signed a PBA) effectively makes this truck cheaper than your could ever find now.

 

[jbronko1]

If you have a guide, you're presumably in the same boat as me (max pack, late 2019)... Did you sign your preliminary buyers agreement? If so, you're grandfathered in to the prior tax credit (assuming the language in the law holds through passage). That's a key reason I'm going to keep my max reservation... Locked pricing and grandfathered tax credit (again only if you have a guide and signed a PBA) effectively makes this truck cheaper than your could ever find now.

if all it takes to lock in the prior credit is a signed buyers agreement, why wouldn't Rivian just make sure that anyone who wants to can sign their buyer's before 12/31/22?

 

[Bgrable]

I don't make the income limit for the credit, but my wife and I file separately and she does. I wonder if I could have her be the actual purchaser AND downgrade to the large pack. Because then we are talking about $17k and that is definitely a lot of money for the 7 or 8 times a year it would matter. But I'm tortured by worrying about battery degrading over time, cold weather, towing a trailer + gear totaling 2000lbs....that 300 range could easily be 200 on day 1 with that load in colder weather with the heat on, and materially less 5 years down the line. Tough call. Have heard some really good results from conserve mode though, for those times when it's necessary. Decisions...

Right there with you. It’s really tough.

 

[Nuclianba]

if all it takes to lock in the prior credit is a signed buyers agreement, why wouldn't Rivian just make sure that anyone who wants to can sign their buyer's before 12/31/22?

According to the current wording, signed PBA has to be done before the act is signed in to law. So they probably have a week, maybe 2 before this is on Biden's desk. It's meant to protect someone who just signed a purchase agreement for a new EV expecting the old rules, but then didn't take delivery until after the law is signed (some provisions go in to effect immediately, others start Jan 1 2023).

 

[Yossarian]

If you have a guide, you're presumably in the same boat as me (max pack, late 2019)... Did you sign your preliminary buyers agreement? If so, you're grandfathered in to the prior tax credit (assuming the language in the law holds through passage). That's a key reason I'm going to keep my max reservation... Locked pricing and grandfathered tax credit (again only if you have a guide and signed a PBA) effectively makes this truck cheaper than your could ever find now.

I've had only one contact with my guide, and though I asked a lot of questions, I didn't really find out much beyond being told that I should get an updated delivery window "sometime in the fall." When I asked if that meant my window would be changing from 1H2023 to something later, the response was that there was no way to know for sure but that most likely, it meant that I'd be getting a more specific window within the six month projection. There was no mention of any paperwork forthcoming for me to review or sign.

I'll contact my guide tomorrow but don't think there's much hope for a signed PBA to be in place before the new bill passes into law.

EDIT: It looks like the Senate will pass the new bill today, and it will go to a special session of the House next Friday. It doesn't become law until the President signs it, but that will surely be as soon as possible after the House approval. All of this means that there is less than a week to get a signed PBA in place to qualify for the tax credit under existing regulation.

 

[jbronko1]

According to the current wording, signed PBA has to be done before the act is signed in to law. So they probably have a week, maybe 2 before this is on Biden's desk. It's meant to protect someone who just signed a purchase agreement for a new EV expecting the old rules, but then didn't take delivery until after the law is signed (some provisions go in to effect immediately, others start Jan 1 2023).

Ah, thanks for clarifying. In order not to screw a lot of people, mostly you know, us, they should grandfather it in to 12/31. If they did that and I could have my wife buy it, I'd probably have to downgrade to Large pack. $18k is a big diff. That would pay for a lot of hotel nights while charging LOL.

 

[EaglesPDX]

If you can wait and can afford it, the max pack is definitely worth waiting for.

Besides the conveniences of added range, it extends life of vehicle as battery degrades and adds to resale value.

With Rivian saying they are going to deliver my R1S in '23, if the Tesla is holding up well, I might ask Rivian to put off delivery until a max pack battery is offered for R1S.

 

[Yossarian]

If you can wait and can afford it, the max pack is definitely worth waiting for.

Besides the conveniences of added range, it extends life of vehicle as battery degrades and adds to resale value.

With Rivian saying they are going to deliver my R1S in '23, if the Tesla is holding up well, I might ask Rivian to put off delivery until a max pack battery is offered for R1S.

During my various exchanges with Rivian CS, the reps took pains to ensure that I was aware that there would not be a Max Battery Pack for the R1S. They referred to the planned larger battery as a "longer range" battery, apparently meaning that R1S battery would not have the same 180 kWh capacity as the existing Max used on the R1T.

As to timing, at one point, a rep told me that Rivian had begun EPA certification testing of a larger R1S battery. That rep could not offer any additional info when I asked if the testing was on the quad-motor platform or the dual-motor. Since that exchange, no other rep has indicated that they had any knowledge of such testing.

I'm hoping that Rivian will provide more info on this "longer range" battery for the R1S at the 11 Aug earnings call.

 

[Tom2421]

I’m an early 2021 preorder holder. I’ve had a max pack configured since I placed my deposit and have been committed to it. I have felt like I need the extra range for towing a wake boat (about 7k lbs with trailer).
I’m now questioning it. I always thought 100 miles for $10k was steep. If the current federal tax bill passed my configuration will no longer qualify for the $7500 rebate. Now it’s 100 miles for $17500?
To further complicate my decision I’m realizing 99% of the time a usable range of 100 miles while towing would be adequate and after talking with CS today I’m more and more convinced that the Max Pack is still in the design phase with no intention of production in meaningful numbers before 2024 and that’s “if” things go well.
Can’t believe I’m even hearing myself say it, but I think I’m leaning toward switching to the large pack. Curious what others thoughts are.

I just towed my boat this weekend (5400lb w trailer) and it seems to be exactly 2 to 1 in mileage. so you will get somewhat more than 100 miles.

 

[jbronko1]

....after talking with CS today I’m more and more convinced that the Max Pack is still in the design phase with no intention of production in meaningful numbers before 2024 and that’s “if” things go well.
Can’t believe I’m even hearing myself say it, but I think I’m leaning toward switching to the large pack. Curious what others thoughts are.

@Bgrable do you have an S or T on order? I really think my Max Pack R1T will be delivered 2H of 2023 if they get anywhere near their production goals. Hopefully we'll learn a bit more during earnings release this week.

 

[Yossarian]

Those who either have access to the R1T Shop, or who have been assigned a guide, should be able to request a Preliminary Buyer's Agreement from Rivian. The agreement is esigned by Rivian and is effective once you've signed and electronically returned.

Whether the IRS will allow the use of the PBA to qualify for the tax credit is still an open question. I seem to remember from the one tax class I had in grad school that any enrolled agent can a petition for review to the Tax Court, so perhaps someone will do that and give us a better idea of what we can expect.