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Speed of charging equally as important and perhaps more so as long as you aren’t going way off road and away from DCFC, etc chargers.
Max Pack; worth the wait??
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37 Posts
I currently drive 6000-7500 miles a year. I had my pre order on a Max pack and did a first mile test drive Aug 17.
I wanted the Max Pack for resale, long trips, and for having battery capacity for camping over weekends.
In the end - the $10k is overkill for needing this range extension for the <10%. I switched configuration on Aug 18. I am now getting delivery in 6-8 weeks.
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37 Posts
I changed my Max Pack configuration with every option (since I was waiting I had tent and kitchen, etc.
I am set to get Limestone, Ocean Coast Interior, black rims and powered tonneau in 6-8 weeks. Interestingly I live 3mi from the Phoenix area service center too.
Guide did say the powered tonneau is a requirement to get into the current build schedule. They are not building / selling manual or “no tonneau” options.
Interesting. When did you initially place your deposit? When did you change configurations away from Max Pack and how long after that were you contacted by a guide?
After I started this thread I convinced myself that for my use purposes waiting for the Max wasn’t worth 10k. I changed configurations in early August to pretty much your exact build. Haven’t heard anything yet, however, the nearest service center is about 4 hours away from my location but there have been several R1T deliveries in my area.
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37 Posts
My order was placed 11/21/2021. Had max pack on my config until Aug 18. I did the test drive Aug 17 and I will say the rep said that if I changed to the LRG pack and make sure I have powered tonneau and underbody I would likely get moved up.
I had white with Forest green as I thought ocean coast would delay but she told me they were changing ocean coast and so I stuck with Limestone and Ocean Coast.
On Aug 24 I got texts and scheduled guide call for Friday Aug 26.
I had white with Forest green as I thought ocean coast would delay but she told me they were changing ocean coast and so I stuck with Limestone and Ocean Coast.
On Aug 24 I got texts and scheduled guide call for Friday Aug 26.
I’m inclined to agree with Yossarian, location seems to be the biggest factor. Kind of frustrating but I get it.
Interesting. I reserved about 6 months prior. But I’m in Florida. I’m wondering if I switch I could potentially take a delivery in a few months.
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790 Posts
That's an image of the R1 Shop. The way it works was described in the email "Introducing the R1 Shop" sent to everyone on 6 June and the email "Get an R1T Sooner" which asked you to confirm your address so that you can get access to the R1 Shop. Basically, it's there so you can pick a configuration "off the lot" instead of waiting for the exact one you ordered. There is no customization allowed for vehicles in the R1 Shop - if you see something you want, take it. If not, continue waiting and check back often.
I wouldn’t count on it but who knows. I’m 18 months into my deposit, switched to large pack/limestone/OC earlier this month and have heard nothing. I do not have a “local” service center but there are 2 close enough that I have seen several 1T’s in my area of Oregon.
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When I first ordered my R1T, I went back and forth on getting the Max Pack. I decided that the price just wasn’t worth it. Then Rivian said it would be delayed until 2023. Then there was nothing but silence from Rivian. Has anyone heard anything from Rivian regarding the Max Pack development? Maybe I missed it but it doesn’t seem that they’ve said anything. So, after seeing the Explore pkg cancelled, I seriously question whether or not the Max Pack is going to see the light of day. That alone is a good reason to stop waiting and get a Large pack.
But, a few weeks ago, we started hearing from multiple owners and reviewers that they were getting better than the EPA rated 314 range on the Large Pack. I don’t recall the exact number but wasn’t Alex on Autos was claiming something near 360 miles on All Seasons? Then I got my truck and started driving it. In conserve mode, I’m regularly getting 2.5miles per kWh in real world driving between 70-80mph. That equates to 337 miles on All Terrains. But I’ve been able to get about 3miles per kWh when I’m keeping it 60-65mph. That’s 405 miles. Now I‘ve only done that for short drives on level ground and I doubt I could maintain that for a long trip, but DAMN that’s GOOD.
Yesterday I drove from Denver, up the mountains to Grant, CO and went four wheelin’ at Hall Valley trail. Going there was all Conserve mode and then off road mode on 6 miles of rocks. Then I drove over another mountain range using Guanella pass (paved road) in Conserve to get to Georgetown, CO before going home in All Purpose mode (last 55 miles). I had 100% SoC when starting with 290 miles of range indicated. The entire trip was 195 miles and the R1T indicated I still have 104 miles of range left in All Purpose mode. That’s 299 miles of range while driving in the mountains in a mix of Conserve, Off Road, and All-Purpose mode. Also, I hauled ass on that last 55 miles. The first half of that was going down the Rocky Mountains on I-70 but the rest was relatively flat ground at 80-90mph.
If I had been really conservative on that trip, I think I would have easily gotten 330 miles or more of range.
Plain and simple, when it comes to the Conserve mode, Rivian is sandbagging its range. IMO the Max Pack is a nice to have, not a need. If you don’t really need 400 miles of range, then you’ll do yourself a solid by getting the large pack and taking delivery sooner.
But, a few weeks ago, we started hearing from multiple owners and reviewers that they were getting better than the EPA rated 314 range on the Large Pack. I don’t recall the exact number but wasn’t Alex on Autos was claiming something near 360 miles on All Seasons? Then I got my truck and started driving it. In conserve mode, I’m regularly getting 2.5miles per kWh in real world driving between 70-80mph. That equates to 337 miles on All Terrains. But I’ve been able to get about 3miles per kWh when I’m keeping it 60-65mph. That’s 405 miles. Now I‘ve only done that for short drives on level ground and I doubt I could maintain that for a long trip, but DAMN that’s GOOD.
Yesterday I drove from Denver, up the mountains to Grant, CO and went four wheelin’ at Hall Valley trail. Going there was all Conserve mode and then off road mode on 6 miles of rocks. Then I drove over another mountain range using Guanella pass (paved road) in Conserve to get to Georgetown, CO before going home in All Purpose mode (last 55 miles). I had 100% SoC when starting with 290 miles of range indicated. The entire trip was 195 miles and the R1T indicated I still have 104 miles of range left in All Purpose mode. That’s 299 miles of range while driving in the mountains in a mix of Conserve, Off Road, and All-Purpose mode. Also, I hauled ass on that last 55 miles. The first half of that was going down the Rocky Mountains on I-70 but the rest was relatively flat ground at 80-90mph.
If I had been really conservative on that trip, I think I would have easily gotten 330 miles or more of range.
Plain and simple, when it comes to the Conserve mode, Rivian is sandbagging its range. IMO the Max Pack is a nice to have, not a need. If you don’t really need 400 miles of range, then you’ll do yourself a solid by getting the large pack and taking delivery sooner.
Good point. They sacked the Explore package. They could certainly sack the max pack, especially pending financial outlook. Not a peep about max pack since December 2021 and that was only delivery estimates.
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572 Posts
Rivian has not been very forthcoming with information about the Max, perhaps because they prefer not draw attention to its very protracted development. We do know that the R1S Max has been axed, and that a "longer range" version, with less than 180 kWh capacity will [possibly] take its place at some point. We know that the R1T Max has been through EPA Cert testing and we also know that Rivian has provided delivery windows for Max reservation holders (in my case, that window is 1H2023.) Finally, we know that Rivian is accepting reservations for future R1T Max deliveries, and that the new price is $16,000, a 60% increase.
I've chatted with Customer Service reps perhaps a dozen times over the past couple of years, and have not been particularly successful in getting any information about the Max. This is most likely because the reps don't really have any information to provide. Most often, the answer I get is some variation of "our team is working hard on that and we hope to be able to provide more information in the near future" which as we've learned, is a very elastic term at Rivian. Still, at no point has anyone at Rivian given any indication that the R1T Max is some sort of automotive chimera, which I choose to take as a positive indicator.
I was also recently assigned a Guide, which I initially took as a sign that my Max order was getting close to delivery. That's not the case however, and as far as I can tell, nothing has changed with respect to a 2023 delivery. If I was a cynic, I'd say that the real reason for being assigned a guide at this point was to gently prod a long-term reservation holder to select a Long Range from the R1T Shop rather than wait for the Max.
Changing focus slightly, I'm really encouraged to hear that you're seeing more range out your LR than the EPA numbers predict. The better news is that you're not alone in that; we seem to get reports nearly every day of folks getting better than expected range from the 135 kWh pack. If I didn't need to tow, I'd gladly take the the LR, though I would switch to the R1S both for its larger covered area and because it is a better tow vehicle in terms of drag.
I dno, I still think that if they are taking orders for the Max Pack, they are going to deliver them. Now, they could be taking Max Pack reservations b/c they wouldn't want the optics of shutting down orders. But they shut down the Explorer, so you'd think at that time they would have bundled the bad news and shut down Max at the same time. We also know that unlike the R1S, there is a clear path to Max from an engineering perspective, it's mostly about materials and their trying to sell the most trucks they can right now. So personally, I think they are waiting to deliver Max Packs until batteries are not the key element slowing down deliveries.
The prodding point from @Yossarian is interesting, but I would only think that's the case if they were having trouble finding buyers for what they're making, and I don't think that's the case (am I wrong about that?).
So I'm an optimistic Max Packer, and I still think I'm getting it when predicted in 2H 2023!
The prodding point from @Yossarian is interesting, but I would only think that's the case if they were having trouble finding buyers for what they're making, and I don't think that's the case (am I wrong about that?).
So I'm an optimistic Max Packer, and I still think I'm getting it when predicted in 2H 2023!
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572 Posts
My guess is that customer satisfaction is what's driving the push to get Max reservation holders to take the Long Range, not the imminent demise of the larger battery pack. I suspect that most who configured a Max have been waiting a couple of years, and I suspect Rivian is somewhat sensitive to that, so is offering something worthwhile (specifically, access to the R1T Shop), to keep us happy. I also suspect that more than a few who wanted the Max have gone the LR route when offered the chance. In my case, it doesn't make sense not to wait for the Max, both because I need the extra range, and because the long delay (and uncertain Rivian delivery timeframe) already forced me to replace my 14-year old car.
The engineering design work for the Max version of the R1T was done some time ago, EPA cert testing is complete and I'm pretty sure that's also the case for the manufacturing engineering needed to get it to production. My guess is that the delay now is because Rivian does not want to slow "standard" R1T production by introducing a new variant into the line. I also suspect that there are some supply chain issues that are not worked out.
All in all, I am quite confident that Rivian will deliver the Max, and equally confident that those deliveries will be later rather than sooner, though I'm happy to be proved wrong on the latter. I've already been waiting more than 2-1/2 years, so what's another year or two . . .
The engineering design work for the Max version of the R1T was done some time ago, EPA cert testing is complete and I'm pretty sure that's also the case for the manufacturing engineering needed to get it to production. My guess is that the delay now is because Rivian does not want to slow "standard" R1T production by introducing a new variant into the line. I also suspect that there are some supply chain issues that are not worked out.
All in all, I am quite confident that Rivian will deliver the Max, and equally confident that those deliveries will be later rather than sooner, though I'm happy to be proved wrong on the latter. I've already been waiting more than 2-1/2 years, so what's another year or two . . .
Well said and I truly hope you’re right. I hadn’t even considered that the Max might never even come to fruition until it was mentioned earlier in this thread and compared to the Explore package. As a customer, I truly hope that not to be the case even though I made the choice recently to change configuration to a large pack. I would have a hard time continuing to support a company that would string along customers like yourself for years with false hopes. As an investor…..I’m not sure. Maybe indefinitely delaying or eliminating the Max would increase production and improve the bottom line. So far Rivian does seem to listen to customers as evidenced by walking back the price increase. I hope they continue to do so. I don’t envy their position as a start up in an ever increasingly competitive EV market and I’m sure many tough choices will have to be made to survive. Just hope the tech and the product are impressive enough to keep them rolling while growing pains are figured out.
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2 Posts
As an owner of a travel trailer, I have been agonizing over the pack size for some time. I've loved reading other's comments regarding why they are or aren't going with the Max pack. For me it came down to three things:
1) While towing, I usually travel at speeds between 60MPH-65MPH on the highway (ideal conditions)
2) My wife and I usually like to stop to stretch our legs, use the restroom and/or grab a drink every 2-2.5 hours. Yes, we're getting older
3) The difference in cost
We're fortunate that the Large pack's range lines up nicely with our average towing speed and time between stops. The difference in cost is an extra bonus.
1) While towing, I usually travel at speeds between 60MPH-65MPH on the highway (ideal conditions)
2) My wife and I usually like to stop to stretch our legs, use the restroom and/or grab a drink every 2-2.5 hours. Yes, we're getting older
3) The difference in cost
We're fortunate that the Large pack's range lines up nicely with our average towing speed and time between stops. The difference in cost is an extra bonus.
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572 Posts
We are in roughly the same boat when towing: staying in 60mph range, stopping every couple of hours for a bio break (human and canine) and limiting daily travel to 400 or so miles. My worry is that towing with the Large Pack will force stopping for recharge even more frequently than the two hour mark however.As an owner of a travel trailer, I have been agonizing over the pack size for some time. I've loved reading other's comments regarding why they are or aren't going with the Max pack. For me it came down to three things:
1) While towing, I usually travel at speeds between 60MPH-65MPH on the highway (ideal conditions)
2) My wife and I usually like to stop to stretch our legs, use the restroom and/or grab a drink every 2-2.5 hours. Yes, we're getting older
3) The difference in cost
We're fortunate that the Large pack's range lines up nicely with our average towing speed and time between stops. The difference in cost is an extra bonus.
The Large Pack has an effective maximum capacity of about 129 kWh. Using the EPA numbers for R1T max range, 316 miles, means about 2.45kWh/mi. Towing cuts that considerably, often by 50%, so lets use that to be conservative, meaning that we now use about 1.22 kWh for each mile traveled. If we then use 80/20 SOC parameters for our travel, we have about 78 kWh of capacity. That means we can go about 95 miles - between 1-1/2 and 2 hours on the highway - before needing to find a charging station. The Max adds perhaps 45 kWh of effective capacity, which extends that range to about 150 miles.
Is the extra 55 miles of range worth an addtional $10,000 and a further 18 - 24 months wait time? Perhaps not, but as an early reservation holder, my cost for the Max is less than the current pricing for a Large. And since I've already waited nearly 3 years, waiting another year or two is no longer a big deal. There's also an ironic potential benefit to waiting. When (hopefully not "if") the quad R1T Max is ready for delivery, let's say in late 2024, the charging network is likely to be much improved, both in numbers and robustness which could make the the argument for the Max less compelling. At that point, the option to revert back to a Large, at the pre-March pricing, may be worth considering.
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674 Posts
I think portable "spare" battery packs are going to be available in future for all EV's. This pic of an Optima Battery owned Rivian R1T carrying all kinds of battery add on battery packs.
Why carry around the weight and loss of range and efficiency when you only need it a few times a year?
I've got my eye on the spare tire well. If I can put a Loki or Kimbo camper on it, I'd have to take the spare out of the bed and it looks to provide a perfect spot for an auxiliary battery.
Key is going to be the tech on the EV's to allow for charging EV while driving, providing the hardware and software to plug in aux batteries so they can both input and charge via a connection near the charge port. Plug the truck in at EA and it will charge the EV and the aux battery.
Why carry around the weight and loss of range and efficiency when you only need it a few times a year?
I've got my eye on the spare tire well. If I can put a Loki or Kimbo camper on it, I'd have to take the spare out of the bed and it looks to provide a perfect spot for an auxiliary battery.
Key is going to be the tech on the EV's to allow for charging EV while driving, providing the hardware and software to plug in aux batteries so they can both input and charge via a connection near the charge port. Plug the truck in at EA and it will charge the EV and the aux battery.
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