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Max Pack; worth the wait??

12K views 59 replies 21 participants last post by  Bike123.com 
#1 ·
I’m an early 2021 preorder holder. I’ve had a max pack configured since I placed my deposit and have been committed to it. I have felt like I need the extra range for towing a wake boat (about 7k lbs with trailer).
I’m now questioning it. I always thought 100 miles for $10k was steep. If the current federal tax bill passed my configuration will no longer qualify for the $7500 rebate. Now it’s 100 miles for $17500?
To further complicate my decision I’m realizing 99% of the time a usable range of 100 miles while towing would be adequate and after talking with CS today I’m more and more convinced that the Max Pack is still in the design phase with no intention of production in meaningful numbers before 2024 and that’s “if” things go well.
Can’t believe I’m even hearing myself say it, but I think I’m leaning toward switching to the large pack. Curious what others thoughts are.
 
#2 · (Edited)
I was a Max Pack order, gave up on that to drive the truck now.

No regrets, enjoying the truck daily. Particularly after getting the home charger installed the range thing is really only relevant for when we tow and we don't tow that often. Thus, 99 percent of the time the 'Large' battery is serving 100 percent of our range needs and it cost less, weighs less, and we are driving it now. Can any of us really separate 'range anxiety' from rational consideration of what range we actually need? I agree the question is difficult to answer, rationalizations are endless in our brains, but perhaps 99 percent of us really can live with 300 miles of range instead of 400? So far, daily reality is that 300 is enough for us.
 
#24 ·
I was a Max Pack order, gave up on that to drive the truck now.

No regrets, enjoying the truck daily. Particularly after getting the home charger installed the range thing is really only relevant for when we tow and we don't tow that often. Thus, 99 percent of the time the 'Large' battery is serving 100 percent of our range needs and it cost less, weighs less, and we are driving it now.
When did you put in your initial reservation and when did you get the vehicle? Asking because I have been on the waiting list for 13 months. Thanks for a reply.
 
#3 ·
I'm 90% inclined to wait for my Max Pack but the devil on my shoulder is poking me to switch to the Large Pack.
For me, if I got the Max pack before the end of 2023, that's fair. I ordered it 11/2021.
But I too struggle with the value of the extra 100 miles. The $10k is worth it to me since we are getting launch pricing--I feel like that's a great deal. As for the rebate, a bummer, but out of our control.
It's true that the vast majority of times, I won't need the extra 100 miles. But if it's really 18 months away, I'm happy to wait. I can imagine weekend trips when an extra 75 to 100 miles will really matter. I feel like a 5 hour trip is a normal driving range for a weekend trip. Throw in highway speed driving, AC or heat, a 1500lb travel trailer, bikes, SUP, kayaks. So I think that's a 4 hour trip without worrying much about charging until I get there or the halfway point that I could hit on the way there or back. With the Large Pack, that's likely only 200 miles instead of 300 (with all that stuff).

It is a bit irrational to delay getting the truck and spending $10k when it's probably an issue only 10 days a year, but I do feel like I wouldn't have an issue with the Max Pack in 9 of those 10 days a year. Having never had an EV, the reduced stress seems worth the $, especially as the battery degrades over time.
I go back and forth but keep ending up back at all is good as long as I get it by end of 2023. I wish I knew the answer on timing for sure tho.
 
#7 ·
Range and wait I agree with. I struggle with the cost/value ratio. Unless you’re someone like Yossarian who will regularly tow long distances in remote settings with extreme conditions I question whether it’s worth it especially when losing the fed tax credit.
 
#6 · (Edited)
I’m an early 2021 preorder holder. I’ve had a max pack configured since I placed my deposit and have been committed to it. I have felt like I need the extra range for towing a wake boat (about 7k lbs with trailer).
I’m now questioning it. I always thought 100 miles for $10k was steep. If the current federal tax bill passed my configuration will no longer qualify for the $7500 rebate. Now it’s 100 miles for $17500?
To further complicate my decision I’m realizing 99% of the time a usable range of 100 miles while towing would be adequate and after talking with CS today I’m more and more convinced that the Max Pack is still in the design phase with no intention of production in meaningful numbers before 2024 and that’s “if” things go well.
Can’t believe I’m even hearing myself say it, but I think I’m leaning toward switching to the large pack. Curious what others thoughts are.
My pre-order dates to mid-2020, and my reservation is for the Max configuration, with the need to tow being the main reason. Though I tow only a few times a year, and the load is small (a teardrop camper of only about 2,000 lbs), it's usually over long distances, and to more remote places. Ten years down the road, when the charging network is ubiquitous and robust, the Max will become a nice to have option. Until then, it's pretty close to essential. I'd also argue that the extra capacity of the Max is pretty much essential in extreme weather, particularly the cold; this is likely to be the case regardless of how ubiquitous or robust the charging network becomes.

I'm reasonably certain that the Max pack is well beyond the design phase and is ready for production. That said, I agree wholeheartedly that Rivian will not begin delivery of Max Pack equipped pick-ups in meaningful numbers until late 2023, at the earliest and likely not until 2024. I've posted multiple times going back many months about why I believe that this is the case, so won't go into that here, but will say that the news from Rivian to date serves only to bolster that belief. The larger battery pack for the R1S, no longer called the Max by Rivian, is likely still in the design phase however. What it's capacity will be, and when it will go into production is anyone's guess.

The tax credit situation is regrettable, particularly for me as the R1T Max I have configured is only $1,500 over the $80k threshold. I've already been given access to the R1T Shop, and have been assigned a guide, I think to try and persuade me to change my order. The R1T LR is really a non-starter though, and I will not be changing my reservation.
 
#8 ·
I’ve followed many of your posts and am not surprised you wouldn’t consider changing battery configurations. You seem to be one of the few who truly need that extra range on a regular basis to make even owning a Rivian feasible. The more I think about it the more sure I am that I don’t fit that category. It would be nice, probably worth 10k, but pretty sure it’s not worth 17.5k for my use purposes.
 
#16 ·
If you can wait and can afford it, the max pack is definitely worth waiting for.

Besides the conveniences of added range, it extends life of vehicle as battery degrades and adds to resale value.

With Rivian saying they are going to deliver my R1S in '23, if the Tesla is holding up well, I might ask Rivian to put off delivery until a max pack battery is offered for R1S.
 
#17 ·
During my various exchanges with Rivian CS, the reps took pains to ensure that I was aware that there would not be a Max Battery Pack for the R1S. They referred to the planned larger battery as a "longer range" battery, apparently meaning that R1S battery would not have the same 180 kWh capacity as the existing Max used on the R1T.

As to timing, at one point, a rep told me that Rivian had begun EPA certification testing of a larger R1S battery. That rep could not offer any additional info when I asked if the testing was on the quad-motor platform or the dual-motor. Since that exchange, no other rep has indicated that they had any knowledge of such testing.

I'm hoping that Rivian will provide more info on this "longer range" battery for the R1S at the 11 Aug earnings call.
 
#18 ·
I’m an early 2021 preorder holder. I’ve had a max pack configured since I placed my deposit and have been committed to it. I have felt like I need the extra range for towing a wake boat (about 7k lbs with trailer).
I’m now questioning it. I always thought 100 miles for $10k was steep. If the current federal tax bill passed my configuration will no longer qualify for the $7500 rebate. Now it’s 100 miles for $17500?
To further complicate my decision I’m realizing 99% of the time a usable range of 100 miles while towing would be adequate and after talking with CS today I’m more and more convinced that the Max Pack is still in the design phase with no intention of production in meaningful numbers before 2024 and that’s “if” things go well.
Can’t believe I’m even hearing myself say it, but I think I’m leaning toward switching to the large pack. Curious what others thoughts are.
I just towed my boat this weekend (5400lb w trailer) and it seems to be exactly 2 to 1 in mileage. so you will get somewhat more than 100 miles.
 
#19 ·
....after talking with CS today I’m more and more convinced that the Max Pack is still in the design phase with no intention of production in meaningful numbers before 2024 and that’s “if” things go well.
Can’t believe I’m even hearing myself say it, but I think I’m leaning toward switching to the large pack. Curious what others thoughts are.
@Bgrable do you have an S or T on order? I really think my Max Pack R1T will be delivered 2H of 2023 if they get anywhere near their production goals. Hopefully we'll learn a bit more during earnings release this week.
 
#20 ·
Those who either have access to the R1T Shop, or who have been assigned a guide, should be able to request a Preliminary Buyer's Agreement from Rivian. The agreement is esigned by Rivian and is effective once you've signed and electronically returned.

Whether the IRS will allow the use of the PBA to qualify for the tax credit is still an open question. I seem to remember from the one tax class I had in grad school that any enrolled agent can a petition for review to the Tax Court, so perhaps someone will do that and give us a better idea of what we can expect.
 
#27 ·
Those who either have access to the R1T Shop, or who have been assigned a guide, should be able to request a Preliminary Buyer's Agreement from Rivian. The agreement is esigned by Rivian and is effective once you've signed and electronically returned.

Whether the IRS will allow the use of the PBA to qualify for the tax credit is still an open question. I seem to remember from the one tax class I had in grad school that any enrolled agent can a petition for review to the Tax Court, so perhaps someone will do that and give us a better idea of what we can expect.
Received chat answer today: We are working to help interested preorder holders and customers obtain a written, binding contract to purchase and secure EV tax credit eligibility. We'll be sharing more information and next steps very shortly
 
#21 ·
My original pre-order from November 2018 was for a max pack. i switched to the large pack to get my truck sooner. i got it in March and i love it and i am happy with the large pack, even 7k miles later. If you will do heavy towing over distance then you need the max pax, period. But for everyday driving, and the occasional boat trip to the local lake, the large pack is great. Hope this helps!
 
#22 ·
I signed up for a Max Pack on an R1T in 9/20 and have been persuaded to hold out for it, because I need the range. I live in Wyoming, and while most of the time I’ll be driving the truck within a safe range near my home, the reason I ordered it was for trips - to Death Valley, to White Sands, to Moab and Telluride. That extra 100 miles range means I can likely get from Jackson Hole to Moab on ‘one tank”, so to speak.

The only official information I’ve gotten from Rivian is that my delivery window is 1st Half 2023. So, I’ve been preparing for that. I recently was told unofficially by someone who works at Rivian that production on the Max Pack will begin in early 2023. In an official communication with Customer Service, I was urged to hang on before switching to a Large Pack, and I’m going to do so. My reasoning is that, first, I need that range out here in the West. Second, I’ve already been prepared to wait til June 2023 to get my truck. Third, I can’t believe there are all that many people who are ahead of my 9/20 order for a Max Pack, so when they go online, I’ll get one pretty quickly.

But if it appears that envelope is going to push beyond 1st Half 2023, I’ll switch to a Large Pack. Regrettably, as I know that 100 miles is needed for the distances one travels out West, where the charging network is just getting built out.
 
#23 ·
well-said. I'm almost definitely going to hold out and that sounds like some good "insider" info. I didn't order until 11/21, a Max Pack Adventure. Last estimate I heard was 2H 2023.
In addition to density out west, it will also be nice on shorter trips that might need just one stop before charging hopefully at destination not to have to stop for as long.
 
#26 ·
I’m an early 2021 preorder holder. I’ve had a max pack configured since I placed my deposit and have been committed to it. I have felt like I need the extra range for towing a wake boat (about 7k lbs with trailer).
I’m now questioning it. I always thought 100 miles for $10k was steep. If the current federal tax bill passed my configuration will no longer qualify for the $7500 rebate. Now it’s 100 miles for $17500?
To further complicate my decision I’m realizing 99% of the time a usable range of 100 miles while towing would be adequate and after talking with CS today I’m more and more convinced that the Max Pack is still in the design phase with no intention of production in meaningful numbers before 2024 and that’s “if” things go well.
Can’t believe I’m even hearing myself say it, but I think I’m leaning toward switching to the large pack. Curious what others thoughts are.
Chatted today w Rivian.
Their reply: We are working to help interested preorder holders and customers obtain a written, binding contract to purchase and secure EV tax credit eligibility. We'll be sharing more information and next steps very shortly
 
#33 ·
Same boat as all of you. Wondering…if we change config to the large pack for earlier delivery, would there potentially be an option to upgrade range in the future? Or are we stuck with an R1T that could potentially lose tons of value once max packs are in full assembly/delivery and on the roads.
 
#34 ·
I'm reasonably sure that each battery pack is physically different, with the Long Range battery pack consisting of X number of cells and the Max battery pack having perhaps 1.33X cells (a notional approximation, based on the kWh delta). There would not be an upgrade path.

While I expect that resale prices for the R1T will drop substantially in the near future, the decline will be due primarily to the increased supply of EV's, and not to the introduction of the Max.
 
#40 ·
Rivian does not seem to be fulfilling orders based on when you reserved. From what I can tell, what you ordered and where you live are more important than when you placed your order. It's possible that you may get your R1T quicker than you think if you live near a Service Center and ordered an Adventure LR with a powered tonneau cover, but not an Ocean Coast interior.
 
#42 ·
I’m an early 2021 preorder holder. I’ve had a max pack configured since I placed my deposit and have been committed to it. I have felt like I need the extra range for towing a wake boat (about 7k lbs with trailer).
I’m now questioning it. I always thought 100 miles for $10k was steep. If the current federal tax bill passed my configuration will no longer qualify for the $7500 rebate. Now it’s 100 miles for $17500?
To further complicate my decision I’m realizing 99% of the time a usable range of 100 miles while towing would be adequate and after talking with CS today I’m more and more convinced that the Max Pack is still in the design phase with no intention of production in meaningful numbers before 2024 and that’s “if” things go well.
Can’t believe I’m even hearing myself say it, but I think I’m leaning toward switching to the large pack. Curious what others thoughts are.
I currently drive 6000-7500 miles a year. I had my pre order on a Max pack and did a first mile test drive Aug 17.
I wanted the Max Pack for resale, long trips, and for having battery capacity for camping over weekends.
In the end - the $10k is overkill for needing this range extension for the <10%. I switched configuration on Aug 18. I am now getting delivery in 6-8 weeks.
 
#45 ·
My order was placed 11/21/2021. Had max pack on my config until Aug 18. I did the test drive Aug 17 and I will say the rep said that if I changed to the LRG pack and make sure I have powered tonneau and underbody I would likely get moved up.
I had white with Forest green as I thought ocean coast would delay but she told me they were changing ocean coast and so I stuck with Limestone and Ocean Coast.
On Aug 24 I got texts and scheduled guide call for Friday Aug 26.
 
#47 ·
My order was placed 11/21/2021. Had max pack on my config until Aug 18. I did the test drive Aug 17 and I will say the rep said that if I changed to the LRG pack and make sure I have powered tonneau and underbody I would likely get moved up.
I had white with Forest green as I thought ocean coast would delay but she told me they were changing ocean coast and so I stuck with Limestone and Ocean Coast.
On Aug 24 I got texts and scheduled guide call for Friday Aug 26.
I’m inclined to agree with Yossarian, location seems to be the biggest factor. Kind of frustrating but I get it.
 
#49 ·
FWIW on website (for me) they claim a Compass Yellow with Forest Green with all other options I have is ready now for “someone” willing to buy it. I’m not sure if that is just an offer for me.
That's an image of the R1 Shop. The way it works was described in the email "Introducing the R1 Shop" sent to everyone on 6 June and the email "Get an R1T Sooner" which asked you to confirm your address so that you can get access to the R1 Shop. Basically, it's there so you can pick a configuration "off the lot" instead of waiting for the exact one you ordered. There is no customization allowed for vehicles in the R1 Shop - if you see something you want, take it. If not, continue waiting and check back often.
 
#51 ·
When I first ordered my R1T, I went back and forth on getting the Max Pack. I decided that the price just wasn’t worth it. Then Rivian said it would be delayed until 2023. Then there was nothing but silence from Rivian. Has anyone heard anything from Rivian regarding the Max Pack development? Maybe I missed it but it doesn’t seem that they’ve said anything. So, after seeing the Explore pkg cancelled, I seriously question whether or not the Max Pack is going to see the light of day. That alone is a good reason to stop waiting and get a Large pack.

But, a few weeks ago, we started hearing from multiple owners and reviewers that they were getting better than the EPA rated 314 range on the Large Pack. I don’t recall the exact number but wasn’t Alex on Autos was claiming something near 360 miles on All Seasons? Then I got my truck and started driving it. In conserve mode, I’m regularly getting 2.5miles per kWh in real world driving between 70-80mph. That equates to 337 miles on All Terrains. But I’ve been able to get about 3miles per kWh when I’m keeping it 60-65mph. That’s 405 miles. Now I‘ve only done that for short drives on level ground and I doubt I could maintain that for a long trip, but DAMN that’s GOOD.

Yesterday I drove from Denver, up the mountains to Grant, CO and went four wheelin’ at Hall Valley trail. Going there was all Conserve mode and then off road mode on 6 miles of rocks. Then I drove over another mountain range using Guanella pass (paved road) in Conserve to get to Georgetown, CO before going home in All Purpose mode (last 55 miles). I had 100% SoC when starting with 290 miles of range indicated. The entire trip was 195 miles and the R1T indicated I still have 104 miles of range left in All Purpose mode. That’s 299 miles of range while driving in the mountains in a mix of Conserve, Off Road, and All-Purpose mode. Also, I hauled ass on that last 55 miles. The first half of that was going down the Rocky Mountains on I-70 but the rest was relatively flat ground at 80-90mph.

If I had been really conservative on that trip, I think I would have easily gotten 330 miles or more of range.

Plain and simple, when it comes to the Conserve mode, Rivian is sandbagging its range. IMO the Max Pack is a nice to have, not a need. If you don’t really need 400 miles of range, then you’ll do yourself a solid by getting the large pack and taking delivery sooner.
 
#52 ·
When I first ordered my R1T, I went back and forth on getting the Max Pack. I decided that the price just wasn’t worth it. Then Rivian said it would be delayed until 2023. Then there was nothing but silence from Rivian. Has anyone heard anything from Rivian regarding the Max Pack development? Maybe I missed it but it doesn’t seem that they’ve said anything. So, after seeing the Explore pkg cancelled, I seriously question whether or not the Max Pack is going to see the light of day. That alone is a good reason to stop waiting and get a Large pack.
Good point. They sacked the Explore package. They could certainly sack the max pack, especially pending financial outlook. Not a peep about max pack since December 2021 and that was only delivery estimates.
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#54 ·
I dno, I still think that if they are taking orders for the Max Pack, they are going to deliver them. Now, they could be taking Max Pack reservations b/c they wouldn't want the optics of shutting down orders. But they shut down the Explorer, so you'd think at that time they would have bundled the bad news and shut down Max at the same time. We also know that unlike the R1S, there is a clear path to Max from an engineering perspective, it's mostly about materials and their trying to sell the most trucks they can right now. So personally, I think they are waiting to deliver Max Packs until batteries are not the key element slowing down deliveries.
The prodding point from @Yossarian is interesting, but I would only think that's the case if they were having trouble finding buyers for what they're making, and I don't think that's the case (am I wrong about that?).
So I'm an optimistic Max Packer, and I still think I'm getting it when predicted in 2H 2023!
 
#55 · (Edited)
My guess is that customer satisfaction is what's driving the push to get Max reservation holders to take the Long Range, not the imminent demise of the larger battery pack. I suspect that most who configured a Max have been waiting a couple of years, and I suspect Rivian is somewhat sensitive to that, so is offering something worthwhile (specifically, access to the R1T Shop), to keep us happy. I also suspect that more than a few who wanted the Max have gone the LR route when offered the chance. In my case, it doesn't make sense not to wait for the Max, both because I need the extra range, and because the long delay (and uncertain Rivian delivery timeframe) already forced me to replace my 14-year old car.

The engineering design work for the Max version of the R1T was done some time ago, EPA cert testing is complete and I'm pretty sure that's also the case for the manufacturing engineering needed to get it to production. My guess is that the delay now is because Rivian does not want to slow "standard" R1T production by introducing a new variant into the line. I also suspect that there are some supply chain issues that are not worked out.

All in all, I am quite confident that Rivian will deliver the Max, and equally confident that those deliveries will be later rather than sooner, though I'm happy to be proved wrong on the latter. I've already been waiting more than 2-1/2 years, so what's another year or two . . .
 
#56 ·
Well said and I truly hope you’re right. I hadn’t even considered that the Max might never even come to fruition until it was mentioned earlier in this thread and compared to the Explore package. As a customer, I truly hope that not to be the case even though I made the choice recently to change configuration to a large pack. I would have a hard time continuing to support a company that would string along customers like yourself for years with false hopes. As an investor…..I’m not sure. Maybe indefinitely delaying or eliminating the Max would increase production and improve the bottom line. So far Rivian does seem to listen to customers as evidenced by walking back the price increase. I hope they continue to do so. I don’t envy their position as a start up in an ever increasingly competitive EV market and I’m sure many tough choices will have to be made to survive. Just hope the tech and the product are impressive enough to keep them rolling while growing pains are figured out.
 
#57 ·
As an owner of a travel trailer, I have been agonizing over the pack size for some time. I've loved reading other's comments regarding why they are or aren't going with the Max pack. For me it came down to three things:
1) While towing, I usually travel at speeds between 60MPH-65MPH on the highway (ideal conditions)
2) My wife and I usually like to stop to stretch our legs, use the restroom and/or grab a drink every 2-2.5 hours. Yes, we're getting older :)
3) The difference in cost

We're fortunate that the Large pack's range lines up nicely with our average towing speed and time between stops. The difference in cost is an extra bonus.
 
#58 · (Edited)
We are in roughly the same boat when towing: staying in 60mph range, stopping every couple of hours for a bio break (human and canine) and limiting daily travel to 400 or so miles. My worry is that towing with the Large Pack will force stopping for recharge even more frequently than the two hour mark however.

The Large Pack has an effective maximum capacity of about 129 kWh. Using the EPA numbers for R1T max range, 316 miles, means about 2.45kWh/mi. Towing cuts that considerably, often by 50%, so lets use that to be conservative, meaning that we now use about 1.22 kWh for each mile traveled. If we then use 80/20 SOC parameters for our travel, we have about 78 kWh of capacity. That means we can go about 95 miles - between 1-1/2 and 2 hours on the highway - before needing to find a charging station. The Max adds perhaps 45 kWh of effective capacity, which extends that range to about 150 miles.

Is the extra 55 miles of range worth an addtional $10,000 and a further 18 - 24 months wait time? Perhaps not, but as an early reservation holder, my cost for the Max is less than the current pricing for a Large. And since I've already waited nearly 3 years, waiting another year or two is no longer a big deal. There's also an ironic potential benefit to waiting. When (hopefully not "if") the quad R1T Max is ready for delivery, let's say in late 2024, the charging network is likely to be much improved, both in numbers and robustness which could make the the argument for the Max less compelling. At that point, the option to revert back to a Large, at the pre-March pricing, may be worth considering.
 
#59 ·
I think portable "spare" battery packs are going to be available in future for all EV's. This pic of an Optima Battery owned Rivian R1T carrying all kinds of battery add on battery packs.

Why carry around the weight and loss of range and efficiency when you only need it a few times a year?

I've got my eye on the spare tire well. If I can put a Loki or Kimbo camper on it, I'd have to take the spare out of the bed and it looks to provide a perfect spot for an auxiliary battery.

Key is going to be the tech on the EV's to allow for charging EV while driving, providing the hardware and software to plug in aux batteries so they can both input and charge via a connection near the charge port. Plug the truck in at EA and it will charge the EV and the aux battery.
 
#60 ·
I’m an early 2021 preorder holder. I’ve had a max pack configured since I placed my deposit and have been committed to it. I have felt like I need the extra range for towing a wake boat (about 7k lbs with trailer).
I’m now questioning it. I always thought 100 miles for $10k was steep. If the current federal tax bill passed my configuration will no longer qualify for the $7500 rebate. Now it’s 100 miles for $17500?
To further complicate my decision I’m realizing 99% of the time a usable range of 100 miles while towing would be adequate and after talking with CS today I’m more and more convinced that the Max Pack is still in the design phase with no intention of production in meaningful numbers before 2024 and that’s “if” things go well.
Can’t believe I’m even hearing myself say it, but I think I’m leaning toward switching to the large pack. Curious what others thoughts are.
BURNING MAX PACK QUESTIONS:
When we knew there was a wait we changed from the max S ( wanted 5 seat for more cargo not a bus)
To the T with large.
We said whatever color , interior, wheels, and package was available first.
Got the launch green 20” wheel black interior ahead of expectation.
Don’t miss the max in the least having dealt with 250mi. on a bolt and 260 on a kona)
The $12k (for 83 more miles !?)was not as much barrier as the wait AND the ?….where do these extra batteries go?
Do they suck space? How much weight do they add ?
Does the weight ( maybe 1/4 to 1/3 ton?)cause diminishing range return ?
Just sayin’……
 
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