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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just finished roughly 700 miles across Utah in my R1T (20 inch AT), and had a great experience overall. Snow mode performed excellent in all conditions except ice and slope + slow speed. On the back highways with 6 to 10 inches of snow, larger drifts and some iced patches- the R1T was unstoppable. Once I got home to Northern Utah, the roads had iced-up, and I couldn’t make the final 100 yards up my road. The R1T was nearly uncontrollable while going slow (3-7MPH) I live on a steep hill and it was very icey.

So, I walked up my “very icey” road and grabbed my 2008 Landcruiser with BFG AT’s (similar set-up to R1T, snowflake rated but not snow dedicated). I drove down to my truck, picked up my family and drove home like the road was clear. A few hours later, I went and picked up the R1T and fooled around for a bit on some back roads with ice that hadn’t been plowed yet. With the quad motors, the power delivery is just different, and takes some time learning how to carry momentum and feather the throttle. I got WAY better at ice driving, but am nowhere near as competent as my old DD of 15Y.

I always put snow tires on my wife’s car, but never needed them for my land cruiser. I am putting snow tires on the R1T.
Tire Wheel Cloud Land vehicle Vehicle
Sky Tire Mountain Cloud Car
Snow Wheel Tire Vehicle Car
 

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Thanks for the report. I too live in Utah in the ski resort mountains. This past week of snow has emphasized the need for dedicated snow tires like we have not experienced in years. I have always put snow tires on my cars in the winter and have been looking for a 21 inch diameter snow tire for the last week. Blizzak, my go to snows for years, does not make one and I have not found a similar tire in a 21 inch size. I can find them in 20 inch but I do not want to suffer the loss of milage with that size wheel. I'm scheduled to get my R1T in June so I will be driving Idaho and Utah by next summer, I hope. Did you experience any range problems on your drive home? I assume you were driving I-15 most of the way. I might change my order if I can't find winter snow tires in 21 inch size.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the report. I too live in Utah in the ski resort mountains. This past week of snow has emphasized the need for dedicated snow tires like we have not experienced in years. I have always put snow tires on my cars in the winter and have been looking for a 21 inch diameter snow tire for the last week. Blizzak, my go to snows for years, does not make one and I have not found a similar tire in a 21 inch size. I can find them in 20 inch but I do not want to suffer the loss of milage with that size wheel. I'm scheduled to get my R1T in June so I will be driving Idaho and Utah by next summer, I hope. Did you experience any range problems on your drive home? I assume you were driving I-15 most of the way. I might change my order if I can't find winter snow tires in 21 inch size.
I didnt measure range loss, but I dont feel like I experienced much. I spent about half the trip on highway 89 and the rest on 15. Charging option‘s were good enough. The EA Charger in Beaver is next to Denny’s (hit that both ways). Snow tires are a must IMO. At least for Northern and Central Utah.
 

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The Nokian 21" comes in a 275/50 only, not 55. The difference is about 3 to 4 MPH due to the difference in diameter. From what Rivian tells me that will require a program software change. I really don't want to do that twice a year when I change the tires out with the seasons. I just emailed Nokian tires to see if they have plans to make their snow tire in a 55. I'm not real confident that I will ever get a reply. They advertise their 50 as a Rivian snow tire but they have a qualifier saying it's not the correct size. I still have a few months to change my order to 20's.
 

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Blizzak, my go to snows for years...I can find them in 20 inch but I do not want to suffer the loss of milage with that size wheel.
Just to be clear, the Rivian's 20" AT tire kit is an inch larger diameter (34") than the 21s and 22s (which are 33"), which would account for much of the milage loss. If you don't want the extra ground clearance nor range loss nor computer reprogramming, you could just get 20" wheels and put 275/60-20 Blizzaks (DM-V2) on them to maintain the 21/22" tire's 33" diameter.
 

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Thanks, I will have to compare all the tires now to see if I can match diameters. Have not done that but was just trying to use the same diameter wheel for all tires and swap tires every winter. 2 sets of wheels, one 20" and one 21" would be easier.
 

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Here's a little spreadsheet data:
Rivian - OE
WidthProfileWheel DSidewallHeight (radius)Total Diameter
275​
65​
20​
7.04​
17.04​
34.07​
275​
55​
21​
5.95​
16.45​
32.91​
275​
50​
22​
5.41​
16.41​
32.83​
Downsized 20"
275​
60​
20​
6.50​
16.50​
32.99​

Back to the Top Post's theme, it's going to be interesting to see the Quad Motor vs. Dual Motor data/discussion/debate for which is better for icy non-offroad conditions...
 

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Tesla Model Y, Cadillac ELR, Rivian R1T, Chevrolet Volt, Spark EV
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Here's a little spreadsheet data:
Rivian - OE
WidthProfileWheel DSidewallHeight (radius)Total Diameter
275​
65​
20​
7.04​
17.04​
34.07​
275​
55​
21​
5.95​
16.45​
32.91​
275​
50​
22​
5.41​
16.41​
32.83​
Downsized 20"
275​
60​
20​
6.50​
16.50​
32.99​

Back to the Top Post's theme, it's going to be interesting to see the Quad Motor vs. Dual Motor data/discussion/debate for which is better for icy non-offroad conditions...
This is an interesting topic, and may prove controversial.

I fall into the category that prefers a dual motor setup and have been won over to giving my money to Rivian partially because I now have a dual motor option.

Exploring traction dynamics on ice, I can use my heavily modified Jeep TJ rock crawler as an example. The Jeep is equipped with ECTED electronic controllable differentials. I have twin dials on the dash that i can use to control each differentials' power distribution from fully open, to fully locked. With decades of experience I know that fully locked differentials are terrible on ice and any extremely slippery surface. Even on ice, there is a friction coefficient; albeit very small. If I try to ease forward with the differentials dialed to "open", one front and one rear tire will start to slip. this may, or may not push me forward, but the important part is that the opposite wheels are not slipping, retaining their small coefficient of friction; the Jeep remains somewhat stable laterally.

Now, if I reach up and lock my rear differential only and try it again, as often as not the rear end will slide out. Why? Both rear tires broke traction, and I lost all lateral stability because I broke the friction on both sides. Lock both the front & rear and and the Jeep is likely to go sideways.

Because I am so familiar with off-roading in this vehicle, I know that dialing in about 30% "limited slip" in the rear and 10% in the front gives me the best handling on sheet ice. It allows one side to slip a little while not destroying my lateral stability. It is the beauty of a differential that you can control.

Back to the quad motors. Is it possible that it is acting too much like a locked differential on ice, and applying too much torque to both sides? This could degrade the vehicle's performance on super slick surfaces, and make the dual motor version (with a differential) actually perform better on those. That said, no doubt the quad motor could be software configurable to behave much like a differential and negate such an advantage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
This is an interesting topic, and may prove controversial.

I fall into the category that prefers a dual motor setup and have been won over to giving my money to Rivian partially because I now have a dual motor option.

Exploring traction dynamics on ice, I can use my heavily modified Jeep TJ rock crawler as an example. The Jeep is equipped with ECTED electronic controllable differentials. I have twin dials on the dash that i can use to control each differentials' power distribution from fully open, to fully locked. With decades of experience I know that fully locked differentials are terrible on ice and any extremely slippery surface. Even on ice, there is a friction coefficient; albeit very small. If I try to ease forward with the differentials dialed to "open", one front and one rear tire will start to slip. this may, or may not push me forward, but the important part is that the opposite wheels are not slipping, retaining their small coefficient of friction; the Jeep remains somewhat stable laterally.

Now, if I reach up and lock my rear differential only and try it again, as often as not the rear end will slide out. Why? Both rear tires broke traction, and I lost all lateral stability because I broke the friction on both sides. Lock both the front & rear and and the Jeep is likely to go sideways.

Because I am so familiar with off-roading in this vehicle, I know that dialing in about 30% "limited slip" in the rear and 10% in the front gives me the best handling on sheet ice. It allows one side to slip a little while not destroying my lateral stability. It is the beauty of a differential that you can control.

Back to the quad motors. Is it possible that it is acting too much like a locked differential on ice, and applying too much torque to both sides? This could degrade the vehicle's performance on super slick surfaces, and make the dual motor version (with a differential) actually perform better on those. That said, no doubt the quad motor could be software configurable to behave much like a differential and negate such an advantage.
You may be onto to something. Once at speed, the quad motors are fabulous….im still working out the slow speed dynamics. Some me, some the truck.
 

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I just finished roughly 700 miles across Utah in my R1T (20 inch AT), and had a great experience overall. Snow mode performed excellent in all conditions except ice and slope + slow speed. On the back highways with 6 to 10 inches of snow, larger drifts and some iced patches- the R1T was unstoppable. Once I got home to Northern Utah, the roads had iced-up, and I couldn’t make the final 100 yards up my road. The R1T was nearly uncontrollable while going slow (3-7MPH) I live on a steep hill and it was very icey.

So, I walked up my “very icey” road and grabbed my 2008 Landcruiser with BFG AT’s (similar set-up to R1T, snowflake rated but not snow dedicated). I drove down to my truck, picked up my family and drove home like the road was clear. A few hours later, I went and picked up the R1T and fooled around for a bit on some back roads with ice that hadn’t been plowed yet. With the quad motors, the power delivery is just different, and takes some time learning how to carry momentum and feather the throttle. I got WAY better at ice driving, but am nowhere near as competent as my old DD of 15Y.

I always put snow tires on my wife’s car, but never needed them for my land cruiser. I am putting snow tires on the R1T. View attachment 9479 View attachment 9480 View attachment 9481
Curious if you tried the off road drive modes to try and tackle the ice, and if so which ones?
 

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This is an interesting topic, and may prove controversial.

I fall into the category that prefers a dual motor setup and have been won over to giving my money to Rivian partially because I now have a dual motor option.

Exploring traction dynamics on ice, I can use my heavily modified Jeep TJ rock crawler as an example. The Jeep is equipped with ECTED electronic controllable differentials. I have twin dials on the dash that i can use to control each differentials' power distribution from fully open, to fully locked. With decades of experience I know that fully locked differentials are terrible on ice and any extremely slippery surface. Even on ice, there is a friction coefficient; albeit very small. If I try to ease forward with the differentials dialed to "open", one front and one rear tire will start to slip. this may, or may not push me forward, but the important part is that the opposite wheels are not slipping, retaining their small coefficient of friction; the Jeep remains somewhat stable laterally.

Now, if I reach up and lock my rear differential only and try it again, as often as not the rear end will slide out. Why? Both rear tires broke traction, and I lost all lateral stability because I broke the friction on both sides. Lock both the front & rear and and the Jeep is likely to go sideways.

Because I am so familiar with off-roading in this vehicle, I know that dialing in about 30% "limited slip" in the rear and 10% in the front gives me the best handling on sheet ice. It allows one side to slip a little while not destroying my lateral stability. It is the beauty of a differential that you can control.

Back to the quad motors. Is it possible that it is acting too much like a locked differential on ice, and applying too much torque to both sides? This could degrade the vehicle's performance on super slick surfaces, and make the dual motor version (with a differential) actually perform better on those. That said, no doubt the quad motor could be software configurable to behave much like a differential and negate such an advantage.
Quad electric motors should have the most control possible, but it requires programming to do so. It could easily torque vector, which is past any type of limited slip/lock capability.
Hopefully the development team continues to tune the drive settings.
 

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I just finished roughly 700 miles across Utah in my R1T (20 inch AT), and had a great experience overall. Snow mode performed excellent in all conditions except ice and slope + slow speed. On the back highways with 6 to 10 inches of snow, larger drifts and some iced patches- the R1T was unstoppable. Once I got home to Northern Utah, the roads had iced-up, and I couldn’t make the final 100 yards up my road. The R1T was nearly uncontrollable while going slow (3-7MPH) I live on a steep hill and it was very icey.

So, I walked up my “very icey” road and grabbed my 2008 Landcruiser with BFG AT’s (similar set-up to R1T, snowflake rated but not snow dedicated). I drove down to my truck, picked up my family and drove home like the road was clear. A few hours later, I went and picked up the R1T and fooled around for a bit on some back roads with ice that hadn’t been plowed yet. With the quad motors, the power delivery is just different, and takes some time learning how to carry momentum and feather the throttle. I got WAY better at ice driving, but am nowhere near as competent as my old DD of 15Y.

I always put snow tires on my wife’s car, but never needed them for my land cruiser. I am putting snow tires on the R1T. View attachment 9479 View attachment 9480 View attachment 9481
Hard to compare the great newcomer with the greatest of all time …
"Is the R1T better than the Landie on K02s?" … no. But put Nokian LT3s on the R1T as many have done (including me) and it becomes that surefooted mountain goat.
My R1T on the Pirelli 20s was just an accident waiting to happen (on snow, climbing, anything icy or sketchy) but now, chains are for really tough conditions, not for every day. : )
 

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Just to be clear, the Rivian's 20" AT tire kit is an inch larger diameter (34") than the 21s and 22s (which are 33"), which would account for much of the milage loss. If you don't want the extra ground clearance nor range loss nor computer reprogramming, you could just get 20" wheels and put 275/60-20 Blizzaks (DM-V2) on them to maintain the 21/22" tire's 33" diameter.
Plus, with the shorter wheel/tire combo in the winter you're partially making up for the cold weather range loss. Then swap the full-fatty 20's on in the summer.

Just returned from a 350-mile road trip in southern CO in my 2022 Model 3 AWD. Saw a whopping 37.3% range loss in 10-20F temps, some snow, with an average speed of 50MPH and 1000ft elevation gain. Worst I've seen, and further motivation to wait for Max Pack for my Rivian.
 

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I had a similar experience recently. We drove from the San Francisco Bay area to Bend Oregon for a family vacation in the snow. My adventure model quad motor with 22’s performed amazing everywhere, except the ice. I never had problems driving through the snow. There was only one time when a sharp curve came up at very slow speeds (less than 10) and the road was all ice. It felt as if my feet were on the brakes because of the regenerative breaking. After that experience I practiced and got used to keeping my foot on the accelerator to prevent the slide. Beyond that one sliding experience, I had no issues. Chargers were easy to locate and gave us a chance to stretch our legs and get lunch. The best part is that it seemed all Rivian drivers planned to met up at the same chargers, because each time we stopped there was at least one other Rivian.
 

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2022 R1T, delivered Dec 2022, Limestone/Ocean Coast, large battery, underbody shield, 20”
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The regen braking will take some getting used on ice - for me at least. I have LT3s on and hit a patch of ice here in the mtns of Colo and all 4 wheels broke into a slide - and I was already going slow. Traction in snow is fantastic - thankfully we don’t get much ice here.

oh and just to be clear I was in snow mode which has the softer regen setting.
 

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I had a similar experience recently. We drove from the San Francisco Bay area to Bend Oregon for a family vacation in the snow. My adventure model quad motor with 22’s performed amazing everywhere, except the ice. I never had problems driving through the snow. There was only one time when a sharp curve came up at very slow speeds (less than 10) and the road was all ice. It felt as if my feet were on the brakes because of the regenerative breaking. After that experience I practiced and got used to keeping my foot on the accelerator to prevent the slide. Beyond that one sliding experience, I had no issues. Chargers were easy to locate and gave us a chance to stretch our legs and get lunch. The best part is that it seemed all Rivian drivers planned to met up at the same chargers, because each time we stopped there was at least one other Rivian.
just wondering if you were in snow mode
 
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