[ERivTruck]

Interesting read. Good ol' dealer network wanting to limit the free market economy as much as they can. Hope any you all that have F150L reservations are not thinking of flipping the truck before the 1 year anniversary.

Ford F-150 Lightning no-resale policy being implemented

 

[rodhx]

Interestingly one "sold" on Cars & Bids yesterday for $100k.

 

[ERivTruck]

Wow. Nice.

 

[FirstStateR1T]

Ford should also forbid ADM's by their dealers too...

 

[Nexus]

Maybe I'm missing something. Wouldn't a high resale value be better for the dealer?

"Look, you could buy it used but it'll cost you more. You'll actually save money if you buy this one with a measly $10K over MSRP!"

"One great feature of this truck is that if you don't like it, you can sell it at a profit"

It's not like they're losing sales, every Lightning is spoken for.

 

[FirstStateR1T]

Maybe I'm missing something. Wouldn't a high resale value be better for the dealer?

"Look, you could buy it used but it'll cost you more. You'll actually save money if you buy this one with a measly $10K over MSRP!"

"One great feature of this truck is that if you don't like it, you can sell it at a profit"

It's not like they're losing sales, every Lightning is spoken for.

Dealers (not all) are taking those with reservations and surprising them with a $10 - 65k ADM upon delivery in hopes they walk away and they can sell it to the highest/dumbest person willing to pay.

 

[Jay Zee]

So it will be interesting to see how enforceable this will actually be and would Ford even for through the injunctive relief based on how expensive that would be and especially if it is an individual. To me this is all just a bunch of saber rattling that will come to nothing. Might spook some individuals with the legal language but to say someone cannot sell a vehicle for an extended period of time is just absurd. Stuff happens with job losses, people do not like the vehicle, etc and if the market is willing to pay for it them so be it. Supply and demand baby. That is the American way.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Hope any you all that have F150L reservations are not thinking of flipping the truck before the 1 year anniversary.

You can do anything you want AFTER you buy it. Ford can say whatever they want, kind of like the old signs, not responsible if you get injured on our property, meant nothing.

Federal and State government a bit different as the EV tax credit and typically State credits require you keep it a year though these tend not to be enforced.

 

[kizamybute']

Demand has already demonstrated that the F-150 is not a good purchase solely for flipping for profit. First one sold at $112K. There was a $107K sale a few days later, but it disappeared and appears to not have gone through. One sold at $99,995 and one just barely over $100,000. This are the first four. Just like Rivian, prices will drop. The fact that none of them are receiving a bunch of bids reflects that the market is limited. Prices will be down to $90,000 in a month, which about matches the "out the door" cost of one for most, after taxes, registration, etc. A month from now, can probably break even on one if you don't like it. But certainly doesn't have same demand as the Rivian or Hummer.

 

[ColeAK]

Ferrari has done this for years. Can only trade in on another Ferrari or sell through an authorized broker. When I bought mine ~18 years ago from what I remember the contract “threats” revolved around them not selling you another one… ever.

Ford is not Ferrari.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Ford is not Ferrari.

they should make a movie.

 

[atebit]

they should make a movie.

Stop it or you’ll make Ford cry.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Just like Rivian, prices will drop.

Have used Rivian's dropped in price. I see them selling for $135k.

F150EV's will command an even bigger premium. Don't see any available for sale other than the $154k new with dealer markup.

 

[kizamybute']

Have used Rivian's dropped in price. I see them selling for $135k.

F150EV's will command an even bigger premium. Don't see any available for sale other than the $154k new with dealer markup.

I saw a few sell for that early on. They're still doing very well. But do see several selling in the under $110K range, once in a while, one goes out closer to $120K. Over $120K is pretty rare. Probably depends on location and availability. One might be willing to pay more for a local one that they don't have to pay for shipping on.

The Fords, sure, there are a bunch asking ridiculous prices, but those that have been via auction format, simply haven't received much in the way of bids. $112K is the highest that appears to have sold. The rest are all closer to $100K. My guess is they'll drop some from there as the first 4 or 5 always seem to draw the highest prices, then they settle in. The Rivian has mostly settled in the $110 to 120K range. My guess is the Ford will settle in around the $90 to $95K range.

The Ford is an ICE conversion. They did a great job with it, but already announced a new ground-up version will be coming in a couple of years, so these will be outdated. The Rivian won't be changing for many years to come. Just as a Tesla still looks basically the same 10 years later, the Rivian will too. In addition, Rivian's price increase has insured that $10-20K over today's price will be possible for a while. Rivian certainly the better "flipping" investment than is the Ford.

 

[pfbz]

So it will be interesting to see how enforceable this will actually be and would Ford even for through the injunctive relief based on how expensive that would be and especially if it is an individual. To me this is all just a bunch of saber rattling that will come to nothing. Might spook some individuals with the legal language but to say someone cannot sell a vehicle for an extended period of time is just absurd. Stuff happens with job losses, people do not like the vehicle, etc and if the market is willing to pay for it them so be it. Supply and demand baby. That is the American way.

Look, a Ford GT is different than a Lightning, and the amount of profit that flippers made on them is in a different league, but Ford has definitely done more than saber rattling enforcing a similar provision on the GT's... In at least two instances, suits were filed and settled at least partially in Ford's favor.

Ford Sends Message to GT Supercar Buyers: Don't Mess with Us | Automobile Magazine

Ford and Mecum have settled litigation regarding the sale of a Ford GT at the auction house’s May 2018 event in Indianapolis, Indiana.

www.motortrend.com

Would it be worth it for Ford to go after individuals who are flipping for ~$20-30K profit? Not likely, unless you are the unfortunate one they might choose to set an example.

 

[SANZCO2]

This is a move Ford made at the request of dealers. The dealer is not required to add it to the sales contract so this seems like it would be up to the dealer who made the sales contract to follow up if the contract is broken. Does not seem like anything Ford will be interested in getting involved in.

It could backfire for the dealers as well in the competitive markets as people will shop around for dealers that are not including it, similar to how they shop around for no ADMs.

 

[EaglesPDX]

But do see several selling in the under $110K range

Autotrader shows 78, average price $125,000.

 

[EaglesPDX]

In at least two instances, suits were filed and settled at least partially in Ford's favor.

Ford lost in court on the law.

And the ownership process for the Ford GT's was very different with a fully vetted contract, Ford still lost when an owner decided to flip it.

 

[kizamybute']

Autotrader shows 78, average price $125,000.

Asking price and selling price are often quite different. That's why I like seeing the auctions on these things. Gives multiple people a week to offer what buyers spending the money are actually willing to pay. There's plenty offered for well over $125,000, doesn't mean people are buying them. The two longest listings on E-bay are priced over that amount and have been sitting there for at least two+ weeks because nobody is willing to pay that for them. Sure, some dealer, in somewhere USA may get lucky and find a "gotta have it now" buyer that's willing to pay over $110,000. But with multiple auctions having now completed, I think we have a pretty good idea of what the "market" value is on them.

 

[kizamybute']

This one can be had for $111,900 with a buy it now option. That pretty much tells you what you need to know. The Cars & Bids one just barely went over $100K.

Personally, I thought the early ones would easily push close to the $130K mark. Surprised there weren't at least a few buyers out there willing to go to that range to be one of the first to own it. Clearly, most sellers thought the same with pricing starting off in the $130K to $145K range, But, nobody bit at those prices. $112K is the highest known sale price I can find.

www.ebay.com/itm/175330867260?hash=item28d288b83c:g:OpsAAOSwHFhitnGX

Here's a list of what's sold so far on E-bay. One at $99,999. $107,768. First one sold at $112,000. One says best offer accepted from a list price of $122,656. Certainly the offer was less.
www.ebay.com/sch/Cars-Trucks/6001/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=ford+lightning&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1&UF_single_selection=Make%3AFord%2CModel%3AF-150&UF_context=finderType%3AVEHICLE_FINDER&_sacat=6001&_stpos=91324&_fspt=1&Model%2520Year=2022

And the one on Cars & Bids...for $100,500.
carsandbids.com/search?q=ford%20lightning