[TxChuck]

Yesterday after 5 months or so of research and "sole" searching i cancelled my R1S order. I'll be looking at buying either a used or new ICE SUV- around $45k to $60K in April.

My intent was to use the vehicle for Rideshare (Uber/Lyft) plus "private Hauling" and wanted a 7 seat capacity. Later this year I'll be putting solar on my house so thought in the long run if i had an EV as a vehicle i can Tap into some free Energy.

After re-evaluating I'd says the Price is the biggest reason for cancelling the order. Comparing 2023 ICE SUV's to R1S. These are starting MSRP's and of course they have Multiple trims and can go much higher. But then I'd be spec'ing above what the R1S has.

2023 Chevy Tahoe - $54,200
2023 Ford Expedition- $55,115
2023 Chevy Suburban - $56,900
2023 GMC Yukon - $57,400
2023 Jeep Wagoneer- $58,995
2023 Lincoln Navigator- $79,725
2023 Cadillac Escalade- $81,190
2023 "Jeep" Grand Wagoneer- $88,640 (only comes in 4x4 version that's why it's so high for a base model)

2023 Rivian R1S - $89,000- Large pack to match range (Range on above ICE is about 350-380 Miles per tank)
I don't care for the 4x4 or off-road capability, but nice to have it so that was not a factor.

I'm not a V8 person but u don't save money for about 5+ years when comparing R1S vs ICE suv. and by then, is it time to replace the vehicle? The R1S is running about $30,000 more than its ICE comparative.

And then there's the used SUV market, for 2021 or 2022 models pricing will be below the above. R1S has yet to develop a used market.

Some will say i should not be comparing EV to ICE vehicles. On that issue you have to, because that's where the new EV buyers are coming from. Tesla have managed to price their Model 3 and Y at half decent prices. I think both are about $10-$15k too high compared to ICE vehicles that are out there that range between $30-$40k.

Size- The R1S is Midsize 200.8 inches long and the above range between 208-215 Inches. Actually, not that much bigger. The R1S by its boxy shape punches above its weight in size and in my book cannot be compared to other 3 row Hatchback type SUV's, But if i did that price comparison the gap would be bigger than what I'm showing.

I like Rivan designs a lot and maybe in 3-5 years they still around (with less start up issues) and used and new pricing is competitive to other EV SUV's that we will see in 2025, 2026 or 2027 from these other manufactures. Many have Trucks coming out in 2024 and they will most likely be basing their SUV off those platforms.

if i still want to spend $90K i could buy an ICE suv and a new Model 3 and be at about $90K!! YUKS

Cheers for now.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Half of the "base price" vehicles you list are for cloth stripped-out interiors. Price them out with comparable features to the R1S and you're at similar prices.

But ultimately buy what you want.

I wouldn't buy a Rivian for a ride share vehicle, anyway.

 

[TxChuck]

Even if you do it will only go up about $3k, You never going to get to $89K unless you go crazy on spec's.

I wanted a 7 seat EV and there's nothing else out there except Model X and EQS are more expensive and smaller in size. Other than that there's nothing else out just yet.

 

[chungachguk]

Even if you do it will only go up about $3k, You never going to get to $89K unless you go crazy on spec's.

I wanted a 7 seat EV and there's nothing else out there except Model X and EQS are more expensive and smaller in size. Other than that there's nothing else out just yet.

All the vehicles you listed are fine vehicles (although is Commodore mentioned, once you get them close to comparable to the options of the Rivian, they'll be far closer to $70k-$80k). None of them are direct competitors to the R1S (not saying they are better or worse; just that they are not a competitor). None of them will have the same acceleration, the air suspension, off-road capabilities, OTA updates, etc. They'll of course have their own upsides, but I agree with Commodore on this: If you are looking for a ride share, Rivian is probably not the best option for you (neither is the Model X, EQS, Range Rover, G-Wagen, etc.)

 

[LoudMusic]

Blah blah blah

Sweet, everyone else moves up in the queue!

 

[EaglesPDX]

Some will say i should not be comparing EV to ICE vehicles.

Some will say i should not be comparing EV to ICE vehicles.

That was good advice especially if you trying to make money driving an EV. The savings on gasoline is never going to zero out the additional cost of an EV.

 

[chungachguk]

Some will say i should not be comparing EV to ICE vehicles.

That was good advice especially if you trying to make money driving an EV. The savings on gasoline is never going to zero out the additional cost of an EV.

I would not say "never," as this is dependent on many factors to be accurately/quickly calculated. Depend on the vehicles involved, the prices of gas/electricity, prices of other maintenance involved, etc. I know for a fact that driving a Model Y versus a comparably sized/equipped ICE vehicle can most certainly zero out its additional cost. But I do agree that buying Rivian for ridesharing with the intention of saving money on gas is almost certainly a losing proposition.

 

[EaglesPDX]

But I do agree that buying Rivian for ridesharing with the intention of saving money on gas is almost certainly a losing proposition.

I believe he said ride sharing and hauling, I'm guessing like the people I hire to tow my boat for me. It will just never pencil out. There's a time factor in both doing the job and one's own time that will likely make it unprofitable. Even when you can't buy a new ICE hauler, I'm guessing folks in used ones will be doing that business unless US gasoline prices are raised via taxes to make it unprofitable and to get everyone on EV's.

To the current situation and the savings on gasoline, using my old 32 mpg Subaru my 300 mile Telsa, at 25,000 miles my cost differential is $1,200 a year savings. The Tesla was $52k, the Subaru $28k, that's 20 years for the fuel savings payoff

 

[kizamybute']

Yep, as others stated, comparing base models of those vehicles with a well equipped Rivian R1S. In the truck space, an ICE F-150 is pushing $85,000. Tahoe's are over $70,000. None are nearly as capable. Yes, the Rivian is a premium priced vehicle. Was better at $70,000 than the new pricing. But, the prior pricing was too low by comparison. The new pricing is a bit too high. That may change with the change in the market. They may have to back off on pricing, as Tesla did. Regardless, it has features none of the others offer. All of the other's are dime a dozen vehicles with little personality. Resale value will likely be better on a Rivian than those mass market vehicles. That has to be factored in as well.

Also, factor in that the Rivian will likely never need brakes, will never need oil changes, trans or rear end servicing, etc, etc. Those costs add up. The cost of Electricity is still about 1/4 the price of gas for most people. That's before the fact that Rivian is still offering free charging and Electrify America commonly offers free charging that further reduces your cost.

I bought both, the F150 Lightning and the Rivian. Was originally going to keep the Lightning. Then changed my mind 5 seconds after putting them side by side. I was offered money that would have given me an over $30,000 profit on the Rivian. I profited just $15,000 on the Ford. That right there makes up $15,000 of the difference. The Lightnings have dropped even further in pricing since.

Need to do the real math. Add up the cost to buy a Rivian, the cost to drive it 60,000 miles over 5 years. Estimate the resale value and subtract that. Add in total maintenance costs and see what the total is.

Then, do the same for a COMPARABLY EQUIPPED ICE vehicle. If you do the math correctly, the Rivian will come out ahead in total cost of ownership over 5 years. And, you'll have a unique vehicle that warrants a premium price rather than a dime a dozen mass market vehicle that has sparks little emotion. Not to mention all the added features a Rivian has, including the air suspension, which is amazing, air compressor, frunk, incredible acceleration, incredible off-road capability, etc, etc.

Too many people look only at the original price when total cost of ownership is what matters most. Do that math and EV's make a lot more sense.

 

[Last ICE]

Yep, as others stated, comparing base models of those vehicles with a well equipped Rivian R1S. In the truck space, an ICE F-150 is pushing $85,000. Tahoe's are over $70,000. None are nearly as capable. Yes, the Rivian is a premium priced vehicle. Was better at $70,000 than the new pricing. But, the prior pricing was too low by comparison. The new pricing is a bit too high. That may change with the change in the market. They may have to back off on pricing, as Tesla did. Regardless, it has features none of the others offer. All of the other's are dime a dozen vehicles with little personality. Resale value will likely be better on a Rivian than those mass market vehicles. That has to be factored in as well.

Also, factor in that the Rivian will likely never need brakes, will never need oil changes, trans or rear end servicing, etc, etc. Those costs add up. The cost of Electricity is still about 1/4 the price of gas for most people. That's before the fact that Rivian is still offering free charging and Electrify America commonly offers free charging that further reduces your cost.

I bought both, the F150 Lightning and the Rivian. Was originally going to keep the Lightning. Then changed my mind 5 seconds after putting them side by side. I was offered money that would have given me an over $30,000 profit on the Rivian. I profited just $15,000 on the Ford. That right there makes up $15,000 of the difference. The Lightnings have dropped even further in pricing since.

Need to do the real math. Add up the cost to buy a Rivian, the cost to drive it 60,000 miles over 5 years. Estimate the resale value and subtract that. Add in total maintenance costs and see what the total is.

Then, do the same for a COMPARABLY EQUIPPED ICE vehicle. If you do the math correctly, the Rivian will come out ahead in total cost of ownership over 5 years. And, you'll have a unique vehicle that warrants a premium price rather than a dime a dozen mass market vehicle that has sparks little emotion. Not to mention all the added features a Rivian has, including the air suspension, which is amazing, air compressor, frunk, incredible acceleration, incredible off-road capability, etc, etc.

Too many people look only at the original price when total cost of ownership is what matters most. Do that math and EV's make a lot more sense.

This is all very true. EVs absolutely can make financial sense, but it depends on a number of factors. Cost effectiveness is increased based on charging habits. Specifically, using expensive third party DC charging versus home charging can change the equation. Also, as pointed out above, you have to look at the maintenance cost differential between EV and ICE. Mechanics my area are charging $200 hour and parts have also gotten more expensive. In the case of the EV you are essentially limited to tires and battery coolant flushes. Of course, there is the risk of more catastrophic issues around the powertrain but most OEMs offer very generous warranties.

As an example, my father purchased a 75 kWh Tesla Model S in 2016. With it he received free supercharging for life. He now has about 60k miles on it and has replaced tires once, replaced battery coolant once, and has put a few wiper blades on - that's it. Over his nearly six years of ownership and 60k miles he's spent less than $100 on charging and less than $2000 on maintenance!

 

[Jim]

Yep, as others stated, comparing base models of those vehicles with a well equipped Rivian R1S. In the truck space, an ICE F-150 is pushing $85,000. Tahoe's are over $70,000. None are nearly as capable. Yes, the Rivian is a premium priced vehicle. Was better at $70,000 than the new pricing. But, the prior pricing was too low by comparison. The new pricing is a bit too high. That may change with the change in the market. They may have to back off on pricing, as Tesla did. Regardless, it has features none of the others offer. All of the other's are dime a dozen vehicles with little personality. Resale value will likely be better on a Rivian than those mass market vehicles. That has to be factored in as well.

Also, factor in that the Rivian will likely never need brakes, will never need oil changes, trans or rear end servicing, etc, etc. Those costs add up. The cost of Electricity is still about 1/4 the price of gas for most people. That's before the fact that Rivian is still offering free charging and Electrify America commonly offers free charging that further reduces your cost.

I bought both, the F150 Lightning and the Rivian. Was originally going to keep the Lightning. Then changed my mind 5 seconds after putting them side by side. I was offered money that would have given me an over $30,000 profit on the Rivian. I profited just $15,000 on the Ford. That right there makes up $15,000 of the difference. The Lightnings have dropped even further in pricing since.

Need to do the real math. Add up the cost to buy a Rivian, the cost to drive it 60,000 miles over 5 years. Estimate the resale value and subtract that. Add in total maintenance costs and see what the total is.

Then, do the same for a COMPARABLY EQUIPPED ICE vehicle. If you do the math correctly, the Rivian will come out ahead in total cost of ownership over 5 years. And, you'll have a unique vehicle that warrants a premium price rather than a dime a dozen mass market vehicle that has sparks little emotion. Not to mention all the added features a Rivian has, including the air suspension, which is amazing, air compressor, frunk, incredible acceleration, incredible off-road capability, etc, etc.

Too many people look only at the original price when total cost of ownership is what matters most. Do that math and EV's make a lot more sense.

Profits and uber/lyft don't belong in the same sentence if someone is considering any new vehicle. The profits are for the business, not the driver. The opportunity cost is not close.

I'm much more intrigued with your choice between the F150 and the Rivian. I went with the Rivian day 1 long before Ford announced and stuck with it, especially since all the technology came from Rivian anyway. The bigger question to me, and forgive me if I missed a post from you previously, is how each drove and rode. I know the F150 is much bigger inside, but does it feel tight and smooth on the road? My previous trucks were bouncy on the old platform and Ford stuck with the antiquated suspension. I don't intend to switch with the insanity that it took to get one of these trucks in the first place, but I would like to know from someone who had both.

 

[sportute]

Just a note from when I cross shopped three row big SUV’s. You may not need 4wd, but you greatly impact the resale having 2wd, where I saw 1-2 year expeditions in RWD selling for 5-6k less than the 4x4 equivalent and not budging. You limit the sales market to a few southern states like TX and FL.

 

[IThinkFreely]

Translation: "I was never going to buy an R1S and now I'm definitely never going to buy an R1S".

 

[FFrank]

Yesterday after 5 months or so of research and "sole" searching i cancelled my R1S order. I'll be looking at buying either a used or new ICE SUV- around $45k to $60K in April.

My intent was to use the vehicle for Rideshare (Uber/Lyft) plus "private Hauling" and wanted a 7 seat capacity. Later this year I'll be putting solar on my house so thought in the long run if i had an EV as a vehicle i can Tap into some free Energy.

After re-evaluating I'd says the Price is the biggest reason for cancelling the order. Comparing 2023 ICE SUV's to R1S. These are starting MSRP's and of course they have Multiple trims and can go much higher. But then I'd be spec'ing above what the R1S has.

2023 Chevy Tahoe - $54,200
2023 Ford Expedition- $55,115
2023 Chevy Suburban - $56,900
2023 GMC Yukon - $57,400
2023 Jeep Wagoneer- $58,995
2023 Lincoln Navigator- $79,725
2023 Cadillac Escalade- $81,190
2023 "Jeep" Grand Wagoneer- $88,640 (only comes in 4x4 version that's why it's so high for a base model)

2023 Rivian R1S - $89,000- Large pack to match range (Range on above ICE is about 350-380 Miles per tank)
I don't care for the 4x4 or off-road capability, but nice to have it so that was not a factor.

I'm not a V8 person but u don't save money for about 5+ years when comparing R1S vs ICE suv. and by then, is it time to replace the vehicle? The R1S is running about $30,000 more than its ICE comparative.

And then there's the used SUV market, for 2021 or 2022 models pricing will be below the above. R1S has yet to develop a used market.

Some will say i should not be comparing EV to ICE vehicles. On that issue you have to, because that's where the new EV buyers are coming from. Tesla have managed to price their Model 3 and Y at half decent prices. I think both are about $10-$15k too high compared to ICE vehicles that are out there that range between $30-$40k.

Size- The R1S is Midsize 200.8 inches long and the above range between 208-215 Inches. Actually, not that much bigger. The R1S by its boxy shape punches above its weight in size and in my book cannot be compared to other 3 row Hatchback type SUV's, But if i did that price comparison the gap would be bigger than what I'm showing.

I like Rivan designs a lot and maybe in 3-5 years they still around (with less start up issues) and used and new pricing is competitive to other EV SUV's that we will see in 2025, 2026 or 2027 from these other manufactures. Many have Trucks coming out in 2024 and they will most likely be basing their SUV off those platforms.

if i still want to spend $90K i could buy an ICE suv and a new Model 3 and be at about $90K!! YUKS

Cheers for now.

I can certainly understand the concern about the price of a Rivian, either model, and why it’s not affordable for many many consumers. One observation on your price comparison. You indicated there are multiple models for the vehicles you listed but it is worth mentioning that, for example, a 2023 Chevy Tahoe priced at $54K will be super bare bones and is really not even in the same ballpark as an R1S. I traded in a 2021 Yukon Denali (a vehicle comparably equipped to an R1S) when my Rivian R1T was delivered last March. I ended up paying sticker for it at just over $80K. I recognize that is still less than a post March 22 R1S but a more reasonable comparison. Having said that I agree you can save a bunch of money going the ICE route as long as you recognize it may not have all the bells and whistles of the R1S.

 

[RITVT]

Not to mention, you'll get to enjoy some awesome dealer mark-ups and dealership sales haggling! I miss that.

 

[Yossarian]

Not to mention, you'll get to enjoy some awesome dealer mark-ups and dealership sales haggling! I miss that.

My local Kia dealer will take your order for a new Telluride in top trim at MSRP plus a $10,000 "market adjustment" fee. Your out-the-door price with sales tax will be just a bit under $70k, but since the deal is strictly take it or leave it, at least you won't need to haggle.

 

[jeffrey.steinman]

Yesterday after 5 months or so of research and "sole" searching i cancelled my R1S order. I'll be looking at buying either a used or new ICE SUV- around $45k to $60K in April. My intent was to use the vehicle for Rideshare (Uber/Lyft) plus "private Hauling" and wanted a 7 seat capacity. Later this year I'll be putting solar on my house so thought in the long run if i had an EV as a vehicle i can Tap into some free Energy. After re-evaluating I'd says the Price is the biggest reason for cancelling the order. Comparing 2023 ICE SUV's to R1S. These are starting MSRP's and of course they have Multiple trims and can go much higher. But then I'd be spec'ing above what the R1S has. 2023 Chevy Tahoe - $54,200 2023 Ford Expedition- $55,115 2023 Chevy Suburban - $56,900 2023 GMC Yukon - $57,400 2023 Jeep Wagoneer- $58,995 2023 Lincoln Navigator- $79,725 2023 Cadillac Escalade- $81,190 2023 "Jeep" Grand Wagoneer- $88,640 (only comes in 4x4 version that's why it's so high for a base model) 2023 Rivian R1S - $89,000- Large pack to match range (Range on above ICE is about 350-380 Miles per tank) I don't care for the 4x4 or off-road capability, but nice to have it so that was not a factor. I'm not a V8 person but u don't save money for about 5+ years when comparing R1S vs ICE suv. and by then, is it time to replace the vehicle? The R1S is running about $30,000 more than its ICE comparative. And then there's the used SUV market, for 2021 or 2022 models pricing will be below the above. R1S has yet to develop a used market. Some will say i should not be comparing EV to ICE vehicles. On that issue you have to, because that's where the new EV buyers are coming from. Tesla have managed to price their Model 3 and Y at half decent prices. I think both are about $10-$15k too high compared to ICE vehicles that are out there that range between $30-$40k. Size- The R1S is Midsize 200.8 inches long and the above range between 208-215 Inches. Actually, not that much bigger. The R1S by its boxy shape punches above its weight in size and in my book cannot be compared to other 3 row Hatchback type SUV's, But if i did that price comparison the gap would be bigger than what I'm showing. I like Rivan designs a lot and maybe in 3-5 years they still around (with less start up issues) and used and new pricing is competitive to other EV SUV's that we will see in 2025, 2026 or 2027 from these other manufactures. Many have Trucks coming out in 2024 and they will most likely be basing their SUV off those platforms. if i still want to spend $90K i could buy an ICE suv and a new Model 3 and be at about $90K!! YUKS Cheers for now.

This is why we have options. If everything was about price then we’d not have any luxury brands available. If your intent is simply to haul people at lowest cost then ford econoline van will fit your need. It seems that you went through a significant amount of time to tell us why you don’t want an R1S. Many of us will on several levels dispute some of your blanket statements but in the end it doesn’t make much difference to us. Only thing I’d chime in on, all of those options (most at least) equally equipped, will approach the same cost of the Rivian. If you do a 5 year maintenance and energy comparison then there is a high probability that the numbers will be quite similar. If you are planning on solar then the R1S would be an absolute no brainer against the IcE options listed with similar builds. all that said, buying a used suv as a bridge for the next few years until EV prices stabilize and more vehicles with lesser trim levels become available is not a bad choice. Having solar coming to your house and dropping 100k on a similar equipped Grand Wagoneer would be a questionable decision though.

 

[GPSguy]

I would have traded my R1T for it!

 

[SantaFeSpence]

Call me a tree-hugging fool, but I’m into EVs because I want to help drive the revolution towards a fossil fuel free world. The oil/gas/coal industry have us by the cajones, and just look at the geo-political influence of Russia and Saudi Arabia et al. I recognize that I have and will be paying a bit more, but I’ll feel better about it - kinda like I do when I choose to buy products made in the USA (like Tesla and Rivian).

 

[FFrank]

Call me a tree-hugging fool, but I’m into EVs because I want to help drive the revolution towards a fossil fuel free world. The oil/gas/coal industry have us by the cajones, and just look at the geo-political influence of Russia and Saudi Arabia et al. I recognize that I have and will be paying a bit more, but I’ll feel better about it - kinda like I do when I choose to buy products made in the USA (like Tesla and Rivian).

I understand the desire to be green but it is worth noting that the electricity you use to charge an EV needs to be produced somehow. If solar or wind replaces coal, oil or natural gas then you have a net gain. Otherwise, you just moving the fossil fuel consumption from your vehicle to the power plant. Not sure how much that accomplished.