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Are going to be buying the Rivian home charger?

  • Yes, I'll stick with Rivian

    Votes: 69 75.8%
  • No, I'm going with another home charger

    Votes: 22 24.2%
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Soooo confused now. So I believe I have a NEMA 14-50 outlet installed in my garage (50 amp). I used this to charge up our RV (50 amp service). If I am correct in my assumptions, I should be able to plug the Rivian portable charger into the truck and into this outlet for 16 miles/hour charging. Correct? Or would this set-up yield a "level 2" charging of 25 miles/hour?

If not the latter, buying the wall mounted charger from Rivian, does it simply plug into the NEMA 14-50 outlet, mount on the wall, and give me a 25 foot cable to charge the truck? Or is there some other special equipment needed to make the wall charger work with the house?
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Thank you all. I learned a lot already. Doing the basic math in my head, I figure a 300 mile range is really like 275. Figuring on the "1/4" tank logic of a gas car fill up, I would need to charge the truck up (worst case at 50 miles). That makes about 225 miles to charge overnight at 16 miles/hour. Using their supplied adaptor, I could recharge the truck "fully" in just a tick over 14 hours. While not optimal, I could park the truck from the time I get home until the next day charging.

With that said, can someone explain what would be needed to be installed at a house to make the wall mounted EVSE usable? A dedicated 60 amp circuit?
You have basically 4 options:
  1. Plug the included cable into your existing 14-50 outlet for 16mph charge. Advantage here is that there’s no cost since you’d already have everything you need. Downside is that if you want to carry your cable with you in the truck, you’d be constantly unplugging it from the 14-50 and stowing it in the truck. There’s not a huge need, though, to always have your cable with you since most charging away from home will be done on equipment already setup with a J-1772 or CCS cable that plugs directly into the truck.
  2. Buy an EVSE with a 14-50 plug and plug that into your existing 14-50 outlet for 16mph charge. Advantage is you keep your cable in your truck and aren’t repeatedly inserting and removing the plug from your 14-50 outlet. In both option 1 and 2, ou also retain the 14-50 outlet for other uses when your truck is not charging such as plugging in your camper or running high powered equipment.
  3. Remove your 14-50 outlet and hardwire an EVSE into the the box where the outlet was for ~20 mph charging. Advantage here is faster charging with your existing wiring and breaker.
  4. Do step 3 plus replace your 50amp breaker with a 60amp breaker for ~25mph charging. You’d need to validate that your wiring from panel to the junction box is sufficient for the 60amp circuit. Advantage here is the fastest charging you can get from an L2 setup.
The reason different configurations have different rates is that Code dictates that a hardwired EVSE can draw 40 amps from a 50 amp circuit, but one plugged into a 14-50 outlet can only draw 32 amps. A hardwired 60 amp circuit can draw 48 amps.

I guess there’s an option 5 as well to run a new circuit for an EVSE and retain the existing 14-50 for other uses. This would be the highest cost option since it would require another breaker and wiring to be run, in addition to ensuring your panel can support the additional circuit.
 

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Soooo confused now. So I believe I have a NEMA 14-50 outlet installed in my garage (50 amp). I used this to charge up our RV (50 amp service). If I am correct in my assumptions, I should be able to plug the Rivian portable charger into the truck and into this outlet for 16 miles/hour charging. Correct? Or would this set-up yield a "level 2" charging of 25 miles/hour?
Using the included portable EVSE that will be included with every R1, you could plug into your NEMA 14-50 outlet and charge at 32A For approximately 16 miles of range, per hour.

If you bought a wall-mount EVSE and plugged it into your NEMA 14-50, you'd be limited to 40A charging, for approximately 20.5 miles of range, per hour.

If you bought a wall-mount EVSE and hard-wired it to a 60A circuit, you'd be limited to 48A charging, for approximately 25 miles of range, per hour. This is the fastest a Rivian can charge via AC.

We don't know exactly what you would have to do to "upgrade" your existing circuit to support 48A charging. If you have 6AWG conductors on your circuit, you could hardwire the EVSE and swap out the breaker in your load center for a 60A breaker. If you have smaller wires then you'd have to pull new wiring.
 

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If you bought a wall-mount EVSE and plugged it into your NEMA 14-50, you'd be limited to 40A charging, for approximately 20.5 miles of range, per hour.
I’ve read several sources that indicate 32 amp is the max when plugged into a 14-50 outlet, and to get 40 amp it needs to be hardwired. I’m no expert on this though.
 

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I’ve read several sources that indicate 32 amp is the max when plugged into a 14-50 outlet, and to get 40 amp it needs to be hardwired. I’m no expert on this though.
EVSEs are considered "continuous duty" loads, and for many decades the NEC said "When the load continues for more than 3 hours under normal operation, the total load on any overcurrent device in the panelboard should not exceed 80% of the overcurrent device rating".

So a 50A circuit should not be subject to a continuous load of more than 40A (50A * 0.8)

The latest NEC has a more complicated policy, and there are circumstances where you can go up to 100% load, but it's simpler and safer to just follow the old rule.
 

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I’ve read several sources that indicate 32 amp is the max when plugged into a 14-50 outlet, and to get 40 amp it needs to be hardwired. I’m no expert on this though.
ERivTruck said:
Soooo confused now. So I believe I have a NEMA 14-50 outlet installed in my garage (50 amp). I used this to charge up our RV (50 amp service).


I think the best way to understand all this is that the 20% Rule (some older codes say 25%) applies to constant load reductions like for EVSE as apposed to devices like electrical dryers that cycle on/off and allow the circuits to cool down between cycles. The rule(s) applies to each link of the circuit. Most critically, it applies to the weakest link in the circuit (i.e., wire gauge, plug, EVSE) understanding that the purpose of the breaker is to protect the wire between your walls.

For example, if you went with the current Rivian EVSE maximum of 48 Amps (which is really limited by the vehicle's inverter), you would need a 60A Breaker protecting most typically 6-3 NM-B Copper Romex (55 Amps at 60ºC)
2165
. Notice both the breaker and wire are above the 48A constant allowed by code, which is what you want.

Now where the wires are connected to a plug like a NEMA 14-50, you would have to apply the same 20-25% derate rule--thus, the plug is the weakest link in this example. This explains why you may have seen some 38A (50A*25%) limits advertised for NEMA 14-50 receptacles-- it is the max constant load limit for the plug and thusly the limiting factor for the entire circuit.

So, if you want to do it by code and want to buy the Rivian EVSE, then you should hard wire (very easy) the EVSE into a 60A breaker with minimum 6 Gauge wire to take advantage of the full 48A. If you need to pull wire, suggest that you future proof the circuit with larger wire (lower gauge).

Hope that helps!
 

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I assume the $500 is not installed? I would still need an electrician to wire it up, correct? Even if I have a 220 in my garage, this would be wired differently?
Correct, uninstalled.
As for the electrician part that is up to you and your comfort/knowledge level. It is truly easy to do if you have a basic understanding AND if your 220v circuit is already wired correctly….
 

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OK a BIG thank you to all for clarifying my options. I think I would have to consult the electrician I had to install the 50 A circuit as I do not know what type of wiring he installed. I do know it was a P.I.T.A. because the garage wall does not meet up with a basement wall in order to run the dedicated line to the fuse box. But somehow he managed it. The plug is not in the most optimal location in the garage, but hey, it works, and you know what they say about a gift-horse.🐴
 

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Correct, uninstalled.
As for the electrician part that is up to you and your comfort/knowledge level. It is truly easy to do if you have a basic understanding AND if your 220v circuit is already wired correctly….
And the same is true of any Level 2 charger, not just Rivian's charger.
 

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I already have a Tesla High Powered Wall Connector installed that I'm hoping I can use with a Lutron adapter. Fingers crossed it works.
 

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Rivian's response about home charger -- At this time we are not a vehicle to grid and the Rivian Wall Charger is an upgrade over the supplied portable charging cable. The wall charger can deliver 25 charged miles while the Portable charger can give you only up to 11 charged miles plugged into a 110V outlet.

You get an upgraded wall charged that can charge your vehicle at 25 charged miles per hour. The supplied charging cable can plug into 110V for up to 11 charged miles or a 240V that can get you up to 16 charged miles. If you are using the R1T as a daily commute vehicle it is recommended to use the Rivian Wall Charger for faster charging speeds.

It's weatherproof if you decide to install out doors and will be serviced via over the air updates
 

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ERivTruck said:
Soooo confused now. So I believe I have a NEMA 14-50 outlet installed in my garage (50 amp). I used this to charge up our RV (50 amp service).


I think the best way to understand all this is that the 20% Rule (some older codes say 25%) applies to constant load reductions like for EVSE as apposed to devices like electrical dryers that cycle on/off and allow the circuits to cool down between cycles. The rule(s) applies to each link of the circuit. Most critically, it applies to the weakest link in the circuit (i.e., wire gauge, plug, EVSE) understanding that the purpose of the breaker is to protect the wire between your walls.

For example, if you went with the current Rivian EVSE maximum of 48 Amps (which is really limited by the vehicle's inverter), you would need a 60A Breaker protecting most typically 6-3 NM-B Copper Romex (55 Amps at 60ºC) View attachment 2165 . Notice both the breaker and wire are above the 48A constant allowed by code, which is what you want.

Now where the wires are connected to a plug like a NEMA 14-50, you would have to apply the same 20-25% derate rule--thus, the plug is the weakest link in this example. This explains why you may have seen some 38A (50A*25%) limits advertised for NEMA 14-50 receptacles-- it is the max constant load limit for the plug and thusly the limiting factor for the entire circuit.

So, if you want to do it by code and want to buy the Rivian EVSE, then you should hard wire (very easy) the EVSE into a 60A breaker with minimum 6 Gauge wire to take advantage of the full 48A. If you need to pull wire, suggest that you future proof the circuit with larger wire (lower gauge).

Hope that helps!
Good points....also...I spoke with two electricians...one who installed my NEMA 14-50. The Juicebox and I am sure others do not need any electrical protection outside of the unit, itself...hence, no reason for a GFCIs or the like...

My wife's Mach-E is 48A...it charges at about 22-25mph....I'd have to sit there and check it or do averages, but it's certainly much more than 16 per hour on the NEMA circuit I've seen others mention. The plug-in 110 should only give about 5-8, btw...the estimation at 11 seems very high for only 110.
 

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Good points....also...I spoke with two electricians...one who installed my NEMA 14-50. The Juicebox and I am sure others do not need any electrical protection outside of the unit, itself...hence, no reason for a GFCIs or the like...

My wife's Mach-E is 48A...it charges at about 22-25mph....I'd have to sit there and check it or do averages, but it's certainly much more than 16 per hour on the NEMA circuit I've seen others mention. The plug-in 110 should only give about 5-8, btw...the estimation at 11 seems very high for only 110.
Charge rate is based on consumption. For instance a vehicle that gets 3 miles per KW will charge 50% faster than a vehicle that gets 2 miles per KW. That is why Rivian is saying 25 miles on the 48 amp charger. An example is I can get 25 miles per hour on my portable Tesla charger on a NEMA 14/50 plug and Rivian would only get me 16 on the same plug.
 

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You have basically 4 options:
  1. Plug the included cable into your existing 14-50 outlet for 16mph charge. Advantage here is that there’s no cost since you’d already have everything you need. Downside is that if you want to carry your cable with you in the truck, you’d be constantly unplugging it from the 14-50 and stowing it in the truck. There’s not a huge need, though, to always have your cable with you since most charging away from home will be done on equipment already setup with a J-1772 or CCS cable that plugs directly into the truck.
  2. Buy an EVSE with a 14-50 plug and plug that into your existing 14-50 outlet for 16mph charge. Advantage is you keep your cable in your truck and aren’t repeatedly inserting and removing the plug from your 14-50 outlet. In both option 1 and 2, ou also retain the 14-50 outlet for other uses when your truck is not charging such as plugging in your camper or running high powered equipment.
  3. Remove your 14-50 outlet and hardwire an EVSE into the the box where the outlet was for ~20 mph charging. Advantage here is faster charging with your existing wiring and breaker.
  4. Do step 3 plus replace your 50amp breaker with a 60amp breaker for ~25mph charging. You’d need to validate that your wiring from panel to the junction box is sufficient for the 60amp circuit. Advantage here is the fastest charging you can get from an L2 setup.
The reason different configurations have different rates is that Code dictates that a hardwired EVSE can draw 40 amps from a 50 amp circuit, but one plugged into a 14-50 outlet can only draw 32 amps. A hardwired 60 amp circuit can draw 48 amps.

I guess there’s an option 5 as well to run a new circuit for an EVSE and retain the existing 14-50 for other uses. This would be the highest cost option since it would require another breaker and wiring to be run, in addition to ensuring your panel can support the additional circuit.
Thanks for breaking it down for a noob like me. I have do not have an existing 14-50 so I am starting from scratch. What would be your recommendation if I were to get a electrician out?

If I opt for #4, will I be able to slow the rate of charging? Isn't slow charging lithium batteries better for their life (and for the equipment)?
 

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My main issue (though I have tentatively ordered the Rivian charger) is why the Rivians will only charge at a max of 25mph on a 50A circuit when Tesla Model 3 and Model Y will charge at a max of 45mph on the same circuit!
 

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My main issue (though I have tentatively ordered the Rivian charger) is why the Rivians will only charge at a max of 25mph on a 50A circuit when Tesla Model 3 and Model Y will charge at a max of 45mph on the same circuit!
Consumption.

The same amount of energy gets stored in the battery over that period of time, but the Rivian is much less aerodynamic and will consume much more energy to propel itself one mile. After 1 hour, both cars have an additional 11kWh of energy stored.

The Rivian consumes approximately 0.45kWh/mi. The Tesla something like 0.244kWh/mi. So the Rivian can go 11kWh / 0.450 kWh/mi = 24 miles and the Tesla can go 11kWh / 0.244kWh/mi = 45 miles.
 

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Yes, and I feel very stupid, as my son pointed that out to me immediately. He has a Model 3. The Rivians also weigh almost a ton more.
 

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My main issue (though I have tentatively ordered the Rivian charger) is why the Rivians will only charge at a max of 25mph on a 50A circuit when Tesla Model 3 and Model Y will charge at a max of 45mph on the same circuit!
I know your question has already been addressed... But to put another perspective on it:

Why does my big gas truck only get 12mpg on fuel? My wife's Prius gets 45mpg!

Same concept.
 

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Thanks for breaking it down for a noob like me. I have do not have an existing 14-50 so I am starting from scratch. What would be your recommendation if I were to get a electrician out?

If I opt for #4, will I be able to slow the rate of charging? Isn't slow charging lithium batteries better for their life (and for the equipment)?
As long as your panel has the capacity, I’d go with the 60 amp breaker and hard wire the EVSE. Charging speed shouldn’t be an issue on L2 charger. That mostly applies to L3 DCFC charging.
 
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