[Yossarian]

Like a number of potential Rivian customers, I want the R1S and need greater battery storage capacity than the "Long Range" battery pack offers. While it's not a surprise to find that the R1S will not be available with the same 180Kwh battery pack fitted to the R1T (space/size constraints), it is disappointing that Rivian has gone silent on the topic. I periodically pulse customer service to see if there is anything new, and did so again today. The response was that the Rivan could not provide "any insight into when the longer-range R1S battery will be available as it's still undergoing certification and EPA testing."

This is pretty much the same response I've gotten every time I've asked the question and is really getting old at this point. It is hugely frustrating that not only can we not configure an R1S Longer Range, we don't have a clue as to the estimated range or battery capacity for the vehicle, nor do we know what the cost for the larger battery will be or have an approximate date for completion of EPA certification and testing.

While I have no plans to cancel my pre-order, which is presently for an R1T Max (with annotations in my Rivian customer file that I want an R1S with a larger battery), I am upset by the consistent lack of information. In fact, I'm now at the point where I wonder if the EPA cert/testing issue is being thrown out as a red herring to cover up that there are some basic unresolved engineering issues that are the true causes of the delay.

 

[sciencegeek]

The R1T has a longer wheelbase. Maybe the Max is as big as the skateboard can get in the T, but it's too big for the S.

 

[Yossarian]

The R1T has a longer wheelbase. Maybe the Max is as big as the skateboard can get in the T, but it's too big for the S.

That's kinda what I meant by referencing space and size constraints in fitting the larger battery pack to the R1S. The third row in the SUV is also a likely a major culprit (note to Rivian: many of us would be fine loosing the 3rd row for more battery capacity). So while it's understandable that the R1S will not have the same long range capacity of the R1T Max, that does not excuse Rivian from providing some indication of the size and cost of the larger battery pack they plan to fit to the R1S.

 

[O. horridus]

While it's not a surprise to find that the R1S will not be available with the same 180Kwh battery pack fitted to the R1T (space/size constraints)

You keep saying this, but do you have any official confirmation of that as a fact? I know there were rumors starting early last year that Rivian was having difficulties fitting the larger battery into the R1S, and speculation that the larger battery wouldn't be available for the 7 seat version because of that, but then Rivian said that wasn't so and that the 7 seater would be available with the larger battery pack. All these rumors have been cited many times, but I haven't seen anything more than rumors so far.

While it sound like a reasonable conclusion given the delay in offering a R1S/Max pack, there could well be other explanations just as reasonable. Such as they want to focus on delivering more vehicles, and if batteries are a bottleneck they can deliver 33% more vehicles if they only ship Large packs. (So why offer a new configuration that you're not going to deliver anytime soon?) I'm not claiming that this is the case, just that there could be many reasons for this, and without official word from Rivian this is all just speculation.

I haven't seen anything yet that definitively says the R1S/Max pack has a target range of less than 400 miles. I think that this is a definite possibility, but again, I've seen nothing to confirm this is actually a fact right now.

 

[zybane]

I reserved an R1S back July 2021 with the idea I'd only go with the Max pack. Considering my current delivery estimate is 1H'23 for "Large pack", I doubt if I want my vehicle in under two years I'd be able to get the Max pack. Especially when most in line ahead of me would also want the upgrade.

So either I go with the regular pack which they call the "Large pack" (don't know why they call it that), or get a different vehicle like my reserved Hummer EV SUV. But I still have the same problem there as that will also only be around 300 mile range.

To sum it up; with Rivian entering production hell, I don't think a "Max pack" R1S before 2024 is realistic.

 

[Yossarian]

You keep saying this, but do you have any official confirmation of that as a fact? I know there were rumors starting early last year that Rivian was having difficulties fitting the larger battery into the R1S, and speculation that the larger battery wouldn't be available for the 7 seat version because of that, but then Rivian said that wasn't so and that the 7 seater would be available with the larger battery pack. All these rumors have been cited many times, but I haven't seen anything more than rumors so far.

While it sound like a reasonable conclusion given the delay in offering a R1S/Max pack, there could well be other explanations just as reasonable. Such as they want to focus on delivering more vehicles, and if batteries are a bottleneck they can deliver 33% more vehicles if they only ship Large packs. (So why offer a new configuration that you're not going to deliver anytime soon?) I'm not claiming that this is the case, just that there could be many reasons for this, and without official word from Rivian this is all just speculation.

I haven't seen anything yet that definitively says the R1S/Max pack has a target range of less than 400 miles. I think that this is a definite possibility, but again, I've seen nothing to confirm this is actually a fact right now.

I'll readily concede that since there has never been an explicit declaration by Rivian that there will not be an R1S Max with 400-plus miles of range, it is technically correct to say there is no "official confirmation of that as a fact." There is however some relevant information that allows for informed speculation.

I've contacted Rivian Customer Service several times over the past months and explicitly asked when the R1S with the Max Battery Pack will available to configure. At first, the answers were that there would be an "announcement" late in 2021; later inquiries changed that to early 2022. No one pushed back on the use of the term "Max Battery Pack."

In the last three months however, Rivian CS would not use the term Max at all in conjunction with my inquiry about the larger battery for the R1S. One rep was a bit more forthcoming and stated that "Max" was no longer used because the range of the R1S may not be the same as that for the R1T (I'm paraphrasing). If you recall, there used to be more information on the R1S web page about a Max range battery pack. That verbiage has been revised and there is no longer any reference to range, other than for the LR model. With respect to a larger capacity battery, the website now says only that "After launch [of the R1S], we’ll announce the timing of our 250+ mile and longer range R1S, with seven seats."

My latest interaction with CS was today and as I noted in the initial post, I was told that Rivian could not offer "any insight into when the longer-range R1S battery will be available as it's still undergoing certification and EPA testing." That is verbatim from the transcript with the rep. So yet again, Rivian declines to use the term "Max" in favor of the more ambiguous phrase "longer-range." And again, Rivian declines to provide any insight as to to timing.

 

[lefkonj]

If the range isn't too your liking I suggest you cancel for now. Rivian is trying to deliver as many vehicles as possible and from the numbers made public a large portion are the 300 mile range. If and when they release a larger battery pack who knows that will be. 5 seat instead of 7, 350 miles, 400 or maybe a new battery that becomes the R1 standard at 600 miles. The future is unknown and that won't change.

 

[O. horridus]

I'll readily concede that since there has never been an explicit declaration by Rivian that there will not be an R1S Max with 400-plus miles of range, it is technically correct to say there is no "official confirmation of that as a fact." There is however some relevant information that allows for informed speculation.

I've contacted Rivian Customer Service several times over the past months and explicitly asked when the R1S with the Max Battery Pack will available to configure. At first, the answers were that there would be an "announcement" late in 2021; later inquiries changed that to early 2022. No one pushed back on the use of the term "Max Battery Pack."

In the last three months however, Rivian CS would not use the term Max at all in conjunction with my inquiry about the larger battery for the R1S. One rep was a bit more forthcoming and stated that "Max" was no longer used because the range of the R1S may not be the same as that for the R1T (I'm paraphrasing). If you recall, there used to be more information on the R1S web page about a Max range battery pack. That verbiage has been revised and there is no longer any reference to range, other than for the LR model. With respect to a larger capacity battery, the website now says only that "After launch [of the R1S], we’ll announce the timing of our 250+ mile and longer range R1S, with seven seats."

My latest interaction with CS was today and as I noted in the initial post, I was told that Rivian could not offer "any insight into when the longer-range R1S battery will be available as it's still undergoing certification and EPA testing." That is verbatim from the transcript with the rep. So yet again, Rivian declines to use the term "Max" in favor of the more ambiguous phrase "longer-range." And again, Rivian declines to provide any insight as to to timing.

OK, fair enough. I thought I had missed some important announcement, because your posts have seemed so definite that this is a fact. I agree that everything you conclude is possible, (and even likely!), I just haven't seen anything from Rivian about this. They're clearly unsure what they can deliver, and are wary of promising something they might not be able to deliver.

 

[O. horridus]

the regular pack which they call the "Large pack" (don't know why they call it that

The original plan, going back over three years now, was to eventually release a version with a smaller-capacity battery (250+ mile range) with a lower price point at some time in the future after the Large pack and Max Pack versions were delivered. That seemed to be a planned business strategy, which currently seems unlikely (to me) to every happen because as technology changes the current "Large pack" capacity is no longer "large", it's just average or slightly above, considering it's a truck, depending on your perspective. I don't think there's much market pressure to release a lower-range version, but a lower-cost version would reach a wider market so it might be something we see in the (not very near) future. But I feel that market segment is better suited by a new platform (a smaller, Ranger-sized R2T?) rather than a smaller battery configuration of the existing R1T.

 

[zybane]

Yup, I was thinking the same thing too. The 100 kWh or whatever it is/was "regular pack" is DOA at ~200-250 miles range.

 

[kizamybute']

Like a number of potential Rivian customers, I want the R1S and need greater battery storage capacity than the "Long Range" battery pack offers. While it's not a surprise to find that the R1S will not be available with the same 180Kwh battery pack fitted to the R1T (space/size constraints), it is disappointing that Rivian has gone silent on the topic. I periodically pulse customer service to see if there is anything new, and did so again today. The response was that the Rivan could not provide "any insight into when the longer-range R1S battery will be available as it's still undergoing certification and EPA testing."

This is pretty much the same response I've gotten every time I've asked the question and is really getting old at this point. It is hugely frustrating that not only can we not configure an R1S Longer Range, we don't have a clue as to the estimated range or battery capacity for the vehicle, nor do we know what the cost for the larger battery will be or have an approximate date for completion of EPA certification and testing.

While I have no plans to cancel my pre-order, which is presently for an R1T Max (with annotations in my Rivian customer file that I want an R1S with a larger battery), I am upset by the consistent lack of information. In fact, I'm now at the point where I wonder if the EPA cert/testing issue is being thrown out as a red herring to cover up that there are some basic unresolved engineering issues that are the true causes of the delay.

While many would like the longer range battery and given that Rivian has allowed it to be configured for the R1T, despite not yet being available, it is a feature that is not offered at all on the R1S. Those hoping for a longer range battery and simply hoping for something that doesn't exist. Back in the 1990's when Corvettes had 385 HP, we wanted Corvettes that had over 400 HP. It was a wish and something that eventually came. But, at the time the 385 HP engines were made, a 400+ engine was not offered. Years later, it was. Then people wanted 500 HP.

Point being, we always want more. But, when purchasing a vehicle. have to decide if you want it based on what it is, not what it might have on future iterations. The longer range battery on the R1S likely won't be offered for at least 2-3 years. Have to decide if you like what is available to order now, or consider other alternatives. Tesla Model Y offers around 300 miles in range. Tesla Model X offers around 360 per Tesla ratings, but it's more realistically about 285. GM says the Lyric will be around 300 miles. The Audi, Jaguar and Mercedes offerings are all less than 300 miles. Rivian, for a mid-size or above SUV, currently offers among the best range of any other options coming in the next year. It's what we have to choose from at this time. You'll drive yourself nuts if you just keep waiting for the next best thing. EV's are tech cars and tech changes daily. Most EV's are outdated in months rather than years simply because they change so fast.

I drove myself nuts with the Tesla constantly changing. Finally learned to pick a car, be happy with it and then in another 2-3 years, upgrade to what was available at that time.

 

[Yossarian]

While many would like the longer range battery and given that Rivian has allowed it to be configured for the R1T, despite not yet being available, it is a feature that is not offered at all on the R1S. Those hoping for a longer range battery and simply hoping for something that doesn't exist. Back in the 1990's when Corvettes had 385 HP, we wanted Corvettes that had over 400 HP. It was a wish and something that eventually came. But, at the time the 385 HP engines were made, a 400+ engine was not offered. Years later, it was. Then people wanted 500 HP.

I don't think that describing the desire for a longer-range R1S as "simply hoping for something that doesn't exist" is accurate. Rivian said, and still says, that a longer-range battery will be available for the R1S.

 

[kizamybute']

I don't think that describing the desire for a longer-range R1S as "simply hoping for something that doesn't exist" is accurate. Rivian said, and still says, that a longer-range battery will be available for the R1S.

I get it. Mercedes said there would be an EQS SUV in 2019. Tesla promised a $39,000 Model 3. Tesla said the Roadster would be delivered to customers in 2019. They said the Model S Plaid would have 500 miles+ in range. They said the Cybertruck would be delivered in 2020. My point is, these manufacturers may be aiming for something, but could be years and years before they actually accomplish it, if ever. So, sometimes its best to just go with what is available and determine if it will make you happy, rather than waiting an unknown lengthy period of time for something that may never be produced.

 

[ElkMan]

Like a number of potential Rivian customers, I want the R1S and need greater battery storage capacity than the "Long Range" battery pack offers. While it's not a surprise to find that the R1S will not be available with the same 180Kwh battery pack fitted to the R1T (space/size constraints), it is disappointing that Rivian has gone silent on the topic. I periodically pulse customer service to see if there is anything new, and did so again today. The response was that the Rivan could not provide "any insight into when the longer-range R1S battery will be available as it's still undergoing certification and EPA testing."

This is pretty much the same response I've gotten every time I've asked the question and is really getting old at this point. It is hugely frustrating that not only can we not configure an R1S Longer Range, we don't have a clue as to the estimated range or battery capacity for the vehicle, nor do we know what the cost for the larger battery will be or have an approximate date for completion of EPA certification and testing.

While I have no plans to cancel my pre-order, which is presently for an R1T Max (with annotations in my Rivian customer file that I want an R1S with a larger battery), I am upset by the consistent lack of information. In fact, I'm now at the point where I wonder if the EPA cert/testing issue is being thrown out as a red herring to cover up that there are some basic unresolved engineering issues that are the true causes of the delay.

 

[ElkMan]

I ordered my R1S in November 2018 and Rivian confirmed with an email saying the larger battery pack with 425+ mile range would be the first one they deliver. They’ve tried to get me to accept the smaller battery a number of times, but I keep sending them the original email where they confirmed the longer range. I’ll wait on the longer range battery.

 

[Yossarian]

I ordered my R1S in November 2018 and Rivian confirmed with an email saying the larger battery pack with 425+ mile range would be the first one they deliver. They’ve tried to get me to accept the smaller battery a number of times, but I keep sending them the original email where they confirmed the longer range. I’ll wait on the longer range battery.

That's really interesting and I wonder if there are others who also got that confirmation.

It's not surprising that Rivian wants to delver as many LR variants of both the R1T and R1S as possible before introducing the Max & "Longer-range" versions. Any changes to a production configuration, even seemingly small ones like adding a larger battery, will adversely impact production rates, usually significantly. In the case of the R1T, Rivian is providing estimated delivery dates for the Max, which indicates that they have the production planning for the new variant largely (if not totally) complete.

Unfortunately, Rivian has revised the info about the "longer-range" R1S variant on their website and now says only that "After launch [of the R1S], we’ll announce the timing of our 250+ mile and longer range R1S, with seven seats." With deliveries of the R1S already in progress, albeit at low rate, it's anyone's guess as to when there will be info on detail on capacity, cost and availability of the Longer-Range variant will be forthcoming.

 

[Michael W. 56]

The R1T has a longer wheelbase. Maybe the Max is as big as the skateboard can get in the T, but it's too big for the S.

I wish the R1S was longer. More cargo space and more 3rd row space.

 

[Yossarian]

I was hoping that Rivian would provide some information on the status of the "longer range" R1S at the 11 Aug Earnings Call. That there was none is disappointing, but not really unexpected.

The only somewhat recent information that I've been able to get is via a chat with Rivian CS. In that case, the rep stated that they the R1S longer range was in EPA certification testing and that Rivian hoped to provide more information in the near future. That was some months ago however, and since then, there has been no information on that topic. That could mean that the original info about EPA testing was incorrect, or it could mean that the testing has been suspended, and there is no information to be had.

As with most things Rivan, our only only option is to simply continue to wait patiently.

 

[davereynolds711]

Like a number of potential Rivian customers, I want the R1S and need greater battery storage capacity than the "Long Range" battery pack offers. While it's not a surprise to find that the R1S will not be available with the same 180Kwh battery pack fitted to the R1T (space/size constraints), it is disappointing that Rivian has gone silent on the topic. I periodically pulse customer service to see if there is anything new, and did so again today. The response was that the Rivan could not provide "any insight into when the longer-range R1S battery will be available as it's still undergoing certification and EPA testing."

This is pretty much the same response I've gotten every time I've asked the question and is really getting old at this point. It is hugely frustrating that not only can we not configure an R1S Longer Range, we don't have a clue as to the estimated range or battery capacity for the vehicle, nor do we know what the cost for the larger battery will be or have an approximate date for completion of EPA certification and testing.

While I have no plans to cancel my pre-order, which is presently for an R1T Max (with annotations in my Rivian customer file that I want an R1S with a larger battery), I am upset by the consistent lack of information. In fact, I'm now at the point where I wonder if the EPA cert/testing issue is being thrown out as a red herring to cover up that there are some basic unresolved engineering issues that are the true causes of the delay.

I wouldn't worry about the "larger battery pack" too much. By the time most of us get our R1S the battery packs will be twice as efficient and have double the range.

 

[Yossarian]

I wouldn't worry about the "larger battery pack" too much. By the time most of us get our R1S the battery packs will be twice as efficient and have double the range.

And I thought I was being pessimistic with my guesstimate of 2024 R1S delivery . . .