Rivian Forum – Rivian R1T & R1S News, Pricing & Order... banner

1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
2019 Zero SR/F and 2018, BMW i3
Joined
·
184 Posts
This is great news. I will think about that. It was my original plan but the launch edition gives you some goodies for free so I wonder if it is worth postponing to get the 400miles package.

Also, who really needs 400 miles range? My gut feeling tells me that you only need those if you are regularly towing something. Unless the estimate range is very off 300 miles is enough for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
994 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
This is great news. I will think about that. It was my original plan but the launch edition gives you some goodies for free so I wonder if it is worth postponing to get the 400miles package.

Also, who really needs 400 miles range? My gut feeling tells me that you only need those if you are regularly towing something. Unless the estimate range is very off 300 miles is enough for me.
I'm sure a lot of people legitimately need something like that if they regularly take long trips. But I think a good chunk of people want it because of range anxiety as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
994 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I think long trip by itself is not a reason. But there’s also areas where charging is very scarce so that is a problem as well.
Yeah the technology that EV manufacturers are developing is infinitely ahead of the current charging infrastructure.
 

·
Registered
R1S, Forrest Green/Black
Joined
·
112 Posts
I personally don't have a need for the 400 mile pack, but others who do will want that. Additionally that 30% increase in range comes with a 10k increase in price, another reason I won't do it. Don't get me wrong if they called me and said 'Sorry sir but the 300 mile pack won't be in your vehicle so we are giving you the 400 mile one for the same price' I would be happy with that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
559 Posts
Also, who really needs 400 miles range? My gut feeling tells me that you only need those if you are regularly towing something. Unless the estimate range is very off 300 miles is enough for me.
There has been a lot of discussion about this. The main arguments for larger range are:
  1. You shouldn't charge to 100% frequently, and bringing charge to 0% is neither good nor practical. So if you're only using 10%-90% or 20%-80% then your "300" mile range is really only 180-240 miles.
  2. Winter can be COLD, and heavy use of heating -- both for passenger comfort but also just to keep the batteries happy -- can reduce range by 30% or more. That 180-240 miles range suddenly drops to 126-168 miles.
  3. Rivian has said towing can reduce range by 50%, so that 180-240 miles suddenly becomes 90-120 miles in perfect weather -- or 63-84 miles in extreme cold or heat.
  4. Batteries degrade over time. Some people find their cell phones do not hold acceptable charge in just 2-3 years. With a vehicle you may expect a battery to be usable for 10+ years... So you probably want to build in a little buffer between the capacity you buy and what you think you need, to account for normal degredation.
  5. Every EV owner I know who has bought the biggest battery pack has told me they do not regret that decision. And many EV owners I know who didn't buy the biggest battery pack have told me that was their biggest regret.
Ultimately, buy the version that makes the most sense to you... But saying that no one needs 400 miles range is, well, silly.
 

·
Registered
R1S, Forrest Green/Black
Joined
·
112 Posts
You shouldn't charge to 100% frequently, and bringing charge to 0% is neither good nor practical. So if you're only using 10%-90% or 20%-80% then your "300" mile range is really only 180-240 miles.
I will admit I have never owned an EV but everything I read says the battery only gives you anywhere from 85-90% of the available capacity, the rest is kept for the 'Ow crap out of juice' moments. If that is true than are you ever really at 0 or at 100. Is it the computer telling you we can't take anymore but in reality it could.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
559 Posts
I will admit I have never owned an EV but everything I read says the battery only gives you anywhere from 85-90% of the available capacity, the rest is kept for the 'Ow crap out of juice' moments. If that is true than are you ever really at 0 or at 100. Is it the computer telling you we can't take anymore but in reality it could.
Some do that. But that still reduces your actual usable range. So a 300 mile pack that limits itself to 90% capacity is only going to give you a maximum of 270 miles of usable range.

That's my point. And that's why some people may want to go with the 400 mile pack.

Want to ACTUALLY drive 300+ miles? Go with the 400 mile pack.
Want to drive 300 miles at speeds over 55mph? Go with the 400 mile pack.
Want to drive 250+ miles in the winter or summer? Go with the 400 mile pack.
Going to tow? Go with the 400 mile pack.
Etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
204 Posts
Also, a bigger battery will last longer and have less degradation. One of the main factors in battery degradation is the number of charge/discharge cycles. For example, assume you drive a 300 mile pack 30,000 miles, that means the battery has "effectively" been cycled 100 times. In the same 30,000 miles a 400 mile pack will have only be "effectively" cycled 75 times.

I use the word "effectively" because this does not mean cycling from 100% to 0% each cycle. I am talking about the equivalent amount of the battery used over that period.
 

·
Registered
2019 Zero SR/F and 2018, BMW i3
Joined
·
184 Posts
Sorry I didn’t mean no one needs. But the circumstances of those who need tend to be special.

And one observation, people who you know who got the large battery, probably got a bit over 300 miles of range. Until recently Tesla would not even offer anything beyond that. The mid range of Rivian is already comparable to the large of most other automakers.

There has been a lot of discussion about this. The main arguments for larger range are:
  1. You shouldn't charge to 100% frequently, and bringing charge to 0% is neither good nor practical. So if you're only using 10%-90% or 20%-80% then your "300" mile range is really only 180-240 miles.
  2. Winter can be COLD, and heavy use of heating -- both for passenger comfort but also just to keep the batteries happy -- can reduce range by 30% or more. That 180-240 miles range suddenly drops to 126-168 miles.
  3. Rivian has said towing can reduce range by 50%, so that 180-240 miles suddenly becomes 90-120 miles in perfect weather -- or 63-84 miles in extreme cold or heat.
  4. Batteries degrade over time. Some people find their cell phones do not hold acceptable charge in just 2-3 years. With a vehicle you may expect a battery to be usable for 10+ years... So you probably want to build in a little buffer between the capacity you buy and what you think you need, to account for normal degredation.
  5. Every EV owner I know who has bought the biggest battery pack has told me they do not regret that decision. And many EV owners I know who didn't buy the biggest battery pack have told me that was their biggest regret.
Ultimately, buy the version that makes the most sense to you... But saying that no one needs 400 miles range is, well, silly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,193 Posts
The mileage estimates on the batteries are EPA ratings which are supposedly conservative, so 300 isn't an "on the button" limit.
That has been true lately when real-world numbers were compared to the EPA estimates.
Base off of those, we could see up to a 15% increase under indeal conditions.
 

·
Registered
2019 Zero SR/F and 2018, BMW i3
Joined
·
184 Posts
Let me also add that one problem is that people have am ICE mind set when switching to an EV. Many people think they "need" to be able to drive 3 or 4 hours non stop because that is what they currently do. But it's OKAY to stop every 2 or 2 and a 1/2 hours. This would imply around 150 miles. Even given all the margin you wanna keep, a 300 mile range more than covers it.

Those working on an office environment know that you are not supposed to stay on your desk from 1pm to 5pm. It is just not healthy to stay seating for that long. You take a break.

And think about, in a 10 hours trip, if you can drive non stop for 4 hours, you have to stop 2 times. If you stop every 2 and 1/2 hours, you stop 4. Given 30 minutes per stop, we are comparing 12 to 11 hours. The difference is not even 10 percent of the trip. Is it really worth the extra money and environmental impact of a large battery pack? Personally I don't think so.

But granted, for some people charging stations are not available even if they want to stop every 2 hours. And with towing those margins can get too thin. So I am not going to say no one needs the large battery. But what I see is that for most people who wants it, it's more of a luxury than a need.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Was browsing on Reddit today and saw this. Seems like people are being told from Rivian that the 7 seat R1S with the 180 kWh battery is going to happen.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Rivian/comments/lx5mso
I would enjoy having the large pack to match my Family members r1t capacity when we travel together it would not be cumbersome and stop when needed together with less down time. Great that’s going to be available.
 

·
Super Moderator
2015 Tesla Model S 85D, 2019 Toyota 4Runner TRD OffRoad
Joined
·
310 Posts
Let me also add that one problem is that people have am ICE mind set when switching to an EV. Many people think they "need" to be able to drive 3 or 4 hours non stop because that is what they currently do. But it's OKAY to stop every 2 or 2 and a 1/2 hours. This would imply around 150 miles. Even given all the margin you wanna keep, a 300 mile range more than covers it.

Those working on an office environment know that you are not supposed to stay on your desk from 1pm to 5pm. It is just not healthy to stay seating for that long. You take a break.

And think about, in a 10 hours trip, if you can drive non stop for 4 hours, you have to stop 2 times. If you stop every 2 and 1/2 hours, you stop 4. Given 30 minutes per stop, we are comparing 12 to 11 hours. The difference is not even 10 percent of the trip. Is it really worth the extra money and environmental impact of a large battery pack? Personally I don't think so.

But granted, for some people charging stations are not available even if they want to stop every 2 hours. And with towing those margins can get too thin. So I am not going to say no one needs the large battery. But what I see is that for most people who wants it, it's more of a luxury than a need.
The “stop more often” approach will often actually shorten the total time for long multi-charge trips. This is because of charge taper at the top end of the battery. The more full you try to get it, the slower the charge rate. So charging to 50% 4 times is usually faster than charging to 100% twice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
The “stop more often” approach will often actually shorten the total time for long multi-charge trips. This is because of charge taper at the top end of the battery. The more full you try to get it, the slower the charge rate. So charging to 50% 4 times is usually faster than charging to 100% twice.
Thank you for the information,
I’m trying to educate myself as much as possible on this vehicle. Any suggestions on the best home charger?
 

·
Super Moderator
2015 Tesla Model S 85D, 2019 Toyota 4Runner TRD OffRoad
Joined
·
310 Posts
Thank you for the information,
I’m trying to educate myself as much as possible on this vehicle. Any suggestions on the best home charger?
I’d suggest you do some searching on here. Lots of good info has already been posted. For my Tesla, I simply installed a NEMA-14-50 outlet (dryer plug) in my garage and then used the cable and adapter that came with my car. I never felt the need to carry that cable in the car unless I was doing a really like road trip, and even then it was just for emergencies. I installed that outlet myself (it was pretty straightforward since my breaker box was in the garage and it already had an unused 50amp circuit). Cost me less than $20 in parts and about 2 hrs of time.

Regardless of whether you do what I did or purchase and EVSE and have it professionally installed, pay attention to what output you should expect to get from it since that is dependent on both the charger and how it’s installed. Hardwired chargers can pull more amps (per recently revised electrical code) than ones that plug into an outlet mounted on the wall. I could pull 40 amps on mine when I put it in, but the updated code would indicate it should only pull 32 amps now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,193 Posts
I would enjoy having the large pack to match my Family members r1t capacity when we travel together it would not be cumbersome and stop when needed together with less down time. Great that’s going to be available.
Did you already order your R1S? If so, add it here.
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top