Since the cold weather has set in for some time now, I thought it would be interesting see what real-world range is like for most owners. From what I noticed so far, winter/cold weather range for our Rivians haven't been too bad, hopefully there are no surprises.
Real-World Cold Weather Range?
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I’ve taken a few trips now in varying weather. Would be interested in what others are seeing, but here’s mine. All trips were 65-70mph the majority of the time on 21” wheels/tires.
Trip 1: ~200 miles. ~1.8 mi/kWh. 9-12 degrees F. half headwind half tailwind at ~15 mph. No material elevation change.
Trip 2: ~150 miles. ~1.6 mi/kWh. 14 degrees. ~15 mph headwind. <1000 ft elevation gain
Trip 3: ~150 miles. ~2.1 mi/kWh. 20 degrees. ~5 mph tailwind. <1000 ft elevation loss
Trip 4: ~120 miles. ~2.0 mi/kWh. 40 degrees. No material wind. No material elevation change.
Depending on what you assume is the usable capacity you can do the math. I’ve heard a variety of numbers for the usable capacity: 125 (Kyle from OOS), 128 (some other YouTuber - can’t remember), 131 (don’t remember).
Trip 1: ~200 miles. ~1.8 mi/kWh. 9-12 degrees F. half headwind half tailwind at ~15 mph. No material elevation change.
Trip 2: ~150 miles. ~1.6 mi/kWh. 14 degrees. ~15 mph headwind. <1000 ft elevation gain
Trip 3: ~150 miles. ~2.1 mi/kWh. 20 degrees. ~5 mph tailwind. <1000 ft elevation loss
Trip 4: ~120 miles. ~2.0 mi/kWh. 40 degrees. No material wind. No material elevation change.
Depending on what you assume is the usable capacity you can do the math. I’ve heard a variety of numbers for the usable capacity: 125 (Kyle from OOS), 128 (some other YouTuber - can’t remember), 131 (don’t remember).
Tires?
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I knew I forgot something! 21”. I updated my previous post.
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Thanks for this @Inconceivable. We plan to use the Rivian for winter trips from PA to the San Juans, the Sierre Madre, the Wasatch and the Spanish Peaks, so it's very useful info. Temps are often well below zero in some of those places, and sometimes for several days.
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20" AT tires and wheels here.
Daily commute is about 20 miles. Suburb to hwy to commercial zone. 25 mpg - 73mph - 25 mph. Seat heat and steering wheel on, cabin set to low 70s
All data is with prewarmed while plugged in vehicle)
35 degree temps I averaged 1.75 m/kw
20 degrees average 1.5 m/kw
5 degrees 1.2 m/kw
The truck handles incredibly well on snow and ice. The door handles do get stuck sometimes but just a couple quick bashes and they are good to go.
Daily commute is about 20 miles. Suburb to hwy to commercial zone. 25 mpg - 73mph - 25 mph. Seat heat and steering wheel on, cabin set to low 70s
All data is with prewarmed while plugged in vehicle)
35 degree temps I averaged 1.75 m/kw
20 degrees average 1.5 m/kw
5 degrees 1.2 m/kw
The truck handles incredibly well on snow and ice. The door handles do get stuck sometimes but just a couple quick bashes and they are good to go.
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Do not be surprised in the least if your normal range at an ambient of 80dF isn’t reduced at least by 33% in very cold temperatures and even more than that if it’s raining and windy, etc.
You can mitigate that loss somewhat by preconditioning the battery whilst plugged in just before you get ready to leave, if the timers on the Rivian allow you to do that.
You can mitigate that loss somewhat by preconditioning the battery whilst plugged in just before you get ready to leave, if the timers on the Rivian allow you to do that.
wow, I didn’t know it got that bad!
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I drove from Philly to Utica on xmas eve. It's a trip I've done 5 or 6 times. Temps were near zero and I saw range reduced to about 2/3 of normal. It was surprising. We normally make it to our charging location with 80 miles left. This time it was 16. We had heat and heated seats on and with the wind and elevation it really ate up the juice!
For what it’s worth..I drive a 2014 Tesla Model S with 182,555 miles (I have a R1S reservation). On a nice day (70 - 80 dF) driving 75 on the freeway (Boston area) I get ~3.1 mi/kWh. When it 10-20dF I get around 2.3 mi/kWh. The worst I ever had (except when pulling a trailer) is 1.9 mi/kWh Which was -10dF with a car topper Driving through the White Mountains.
so according to my car’s reported numbers I get the following.
10 - 20dF I see a 26% range reduction
-10dF w/car topper I see a 39% range reduction
But here’s the thing when I’m driving in 10 - 20 dF weather I get half my expected range (120 miles) at best. So the numbers my car report just are not accurate. I‘ve had her for 8 years and i do a good amount of skiing and ice climbing so I’ve got a lot of long winter miles under my belt.
im interested if any Rivian owners are seeing the samething?
so according to my car’s reported numbers I get the following.
10 - 20dF I see a 26% range reduction
-10dF w/car topper I see a 39% range reduction
But here’s the thing when I’m driving in 10 - 20 dF weather I get half my expected range (120 miles) at best. So the numbers my car report just are not accurate. I‘ve had her for 8 years and i do a good amount of skiing and ice climbing so I’ve got a lot of long winter miles under my belt.
im interested if any Rivian owners are seeing the samething?
My experience is the same with our 2013 Model S over the last 6 years. That’s the reason I have been holding out for a max pack but I think I’m going to end up taking delivery of a large pack instead soon just to insure I can get the original protected reservation pricing. There’s nothing else coming to market in the next year or two with similar specs for under $70k after the tax incentive.
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The Rivian would be my first EV, but I too am worried about the impact to range in cold weather and while towing and have held out for the Max for nearly three years now. I'm not inclined to take up Rivian's offer for the new dual-motor R1T not because I need the performance of the quad, but because the motors are newly designed and in their initial stage of production.
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JHawk,
Where did you hear that the dual motor is a new design motor than the quad motors? I'm not disagreeing, just never seen that stated by Rivian. Perhaps I missed it.
Where did you hear that the dual motor is a new design motor than the quad motors? I'm not disagreeing, just never seen that stated by Rivian. Perhaps I missed it.
Driving with the temperature at 11 below F, 30mph+ headwind and heater on a 90 mile trip took 180 miles of the predicted range. I started with 205 on the screen and decided to stop and charge 20 miles short of my destination because I thought it would be too close. The efficiency was running at around 1.3kwh/mile but I think it was a little less.
The shocker was when the truck started to prep the battery for fast charging the indicated mileage dropped to 1.1kwh/mile. Apparently it takes a lot of juice to heat those batteries.
The shocker was when the truck started to prep the battery for fast charging the indicated mileage dropped to 1.1kwh/mile. Apparently it takes a lot of juice to heat those batteries.
I’m interpreting Rivian’s wording literally when they say “Our Dual-Motor AWD system features one drive unit for each axle. Developing and manufacturing the system entirely in-house allows us to optimize performance, speed production and lower costs.” Based on that I don’t believe the dual motor will have a Bosch motor.
What’s the difference between standard and enhanced Dual-Motor AWD? - Support Center - Rivian
Our Dual-Motor AWD system features one drive unit for each axle. Developing and manufacturing the system entirely in-house allows us to optimize performance, speed production and lower costs. When it’s introduced in the R1T and R1S next year, you’ll be able to choose a standard version capable...
rivian.com
I don’t tow much or far with our current Toyota Tundra but we do drive ~205mi regularly to our lake property. We rarely drive the Tesla on those trips because 200mi is rarely achievable without a stop to charge at one of the two SCs along a longer 235mi route (my current rated range at 100% charge is ~230mi). Based on my lifetime average efficiency that rated range of 230mi works out to ~203mi in real world conditions. The issue becomes you don’t want to spend the last 30mi of your drive stressing over whether you’re going to make it or not on a 200mi drive so the best option is to do all your planning to arrive with maybe ~10% range remaining for sanity.
I have what I like to call my long term stress free range calculation that goes like this:
1. Take Rated Range
2. Reduce 10% for long term battery degredation
3. Reduce another 10% for end of trip remaining range sanity.
4. Reduce 35-40% for worst case driving conditions (80mph speed, 25mph headwind, <20degF temps).
If that holds for the Rivian Large Pack on 21s then I’m guessing the long term stress free range will be somewhere between 160 to 175mi and the typical nice day stress free range should be ~240+mi. Those numbers are why I was originally holding out for the max pack. But after Rivian’s announced delays and looking over the rest of the options coming to market with any kind of volume in the next 12-18mo, I just don’t see anything with 400mi rated range and the protected price on the large pack looks attractive compared to the options that are/will be there. If I planned to do any towing over 100mi I personally don’t think the large pack and frequent charging stops would work for my personality (or my wife and kids’s for that matter).
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The Quad motor was a Rivian design. A new design, not used by anyone previously. Bosch just built the thing.
The Dual motor will also be a Rivian design, but they're moving manufacturing in-house.
I don't see a need to avoid the Dual motor just because it's "new" like the Quad was last year. Any lessons learned from real-world testing of the ~100,000 Bosch-built motors already is service will surely be incorporated into the new Dual design.
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On a side note and perhaps related to the recent S/W update, I noticed that after charging full to 100% recently (for the first time in a long time), my efficiency increased. I'm not sure if the battery needed to be in a fully-charged state to take advantage of recent SW updates, but if any of you are like me and normally don't charge to 100%, you may want to try it to see if you notice any range improvements also. Maybe it was just a few degrees warmer when I went to 100%, but my temps haven't moved very much...
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Is the efficiency decrease in cold weather due at least in part to the design of the R1 and the lack of a heat pump?
From what I've read, Rivian does not use a pump in the R1, with battery heating via recapture of the excess heat generated by other electrical components. This may mean that supplementary heating is needed in cold weather and I'd guess that is by a resistive system. It may be that this same inefficient system is need for the cabin in colder weather. I'd think that the current draw for this this supplementary heat would be pretty substantial, at least until the vehicle's electrical systems warmed and generated waste heat.
From what I've read, Rivian does not use a pump in the R1, with battery heating via recapture of the excess heat generated by other electrical components. This may mean that supplementary heating is needed in cold weather and I'd guess that is by a resistive system. It may be that this same inefficient system is need for the cabin in colder weather. I'd think that the current draw for this this supplementary heat would be pretty substantial, at least until the vehicle's electrical systems warmed and generated waste heat.
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