[kenrosencpa]

Hello,
Before I start I want to confess my complete ignorance about EV's . I haven't owned any electric car yet. I am learning. We live in So. Florida and because of the rains and occasional flooding my next vehicle is going to be a truck. I also own a 24' Boston Whaler that I would like to tow as well as a 25' travel trailer. Both are in the 7,000 lb range.

Last December I put in my reservation for a R1T with the max pack. Due to my ignorance I assumed I would have a 400 mile range, slightly less towing. Now after doing some research it appears that anything close to 400 miles is not going to happen. More like 140 miles with the Max battery. Now it looks like the Max battery might not appear for a year or two, if ever. So I would need to settle for 100 to 110 miles towing 7000 lbs. I think that is the general consensus.

Can I deal with this? My home in Ft. Lauderdale to Key West is 190 miles requiring one charge. I would still need to charge up to go to Marathon Key 140 miles. Naples is 109 miles, maybe???. And even charging up I will need to disconnect my trailer to charge. Are EV trucks ready for prime time yet?

 

[ColeAK]

What boston whaler do you have? At that weight a fairly big one. Wind resistance matters more then weight in terms of range hit. If it is a Center cockpit version may be able to get 200 or so miles with the boat going to the keys since you won’t be going >55 mph much of the way. The numbers you are quoting for max pack will be close (110-120 miles) with the 25’ camper and boats tend to be a little more aerodynamic.

I’ve had 2 teslas now for 8 years here in Alaska with almost no charging infrastructure. Camp grounds are great places to charge. I also tow a 25’ camper, and do so ~8-10k miles a summer. I had a reservation for a max pack R1T figuring for me 120-150 miles is the minimum range I can take towing. Personally given that whole know when (or if) the max pack will be released I canceled, took my $1k and put it into RIVN the fist time it dipped below $30.

For me, I think by the time the max pack could be released there will be way more EV truck options.

 

[kenrosencpa]

I have a 240 Vantage it's about 6k lbs. loaded with gas and my gear. Add another 1,000 to 1,200lbs for the trailer. The Vantage is a center console probably not as streamlined as a center console maybe better than a camper.

 

[ColeAK]

I have a 240 Vantage it's about 6k lbs. loaded with gas and my gear. Add another 1,000 to 1,200lbs for the trailer. The Vantage is a center console probably not as streamlined as a center console maybe better than a camper.

Nice boat. I had a similar 26’ Duckworth for years, we prefer AL boats up here in AK. Probably slightly more aerodynamic then a camper but fairly large front profile.

 

[BridgeTwnSmith]

Hello,
Before I start I want to confess my complete ignorance about EV's . I haven't owned any electric car yet. I am learning. We live in So. Florida and because of the rains and occasional flooding my next vehicle is going to be a truck. I also own a 24' Boston Whaler that I would like to tow as well as a 25' travel trailer. Both are in the 7,000 lb range.

Last December I put in my reservation for a R1T with the max pack. Due to my ignorance I assumed I would have a 400 mile range, slightly less towing. Now after doing some research it appears that anything close to 400 miles is not going to happen. More like 140 miles with the Max battery. Now it looks like the Max battery might not appear for a year or two, if ever. So I would need to settle for 100 to 110 miles towing 7000 lbs. I think that is the general consensus.

Can I deal with this? My home in Ft. Lauderdale to Key West is 190 miles requiring one charge. I would still need to charge up to go to Marathon Key 140 miles. Naples is 109 miles, maybe???. And even charging up I will need to disconnect my trailer to charge. Are EV trucks ready for prime time yet?

I am not pro on this but everything I have seen and read seems to indicate worst case is 50% reduction in mileage so 190miles on the Max and 140 on the Large Pack. I think you can do what you want to do with the Rivian but it will take some thought on your part, not just hitting the road willy nilly as my grandpa would say

 

[ColeAK]

I am not pro on this but everything I have seen and read seems to indicate worst case is 50% reduction in mileage so 190miles on the Max and 140 on the Large Pack. I think you can do what you want to do with the Rivian but it will take some thought on your part, not just hitting the road willy nilly as my grandpa would say

With a 5-7k lb camper will be more like a 60-70% range hit. It it isn’t the weight it’s the air drag. Just basic physics at 55-65 mph puts it at an additional ~1+kWh/mi above rated. So using 80% of the battery capacity only looking at <100 miles with the large and <130 miles with the max (if it is 400 miles)

My ice truck gets a 50% hit (16 mpg to 8mpg) and it is rolling along at 2.4 kWh/mi not towing.

 

[rhumbliner]

I routinely drive from Bend OR down to the Crane Prairie Reservoir towing my 30’ Airstream — a round trip distance of 90 miles. I concur with @ColeAK that the wind resistance is the biggest factor to consider. When I Ieave home I’m pretty close to an estimated range of 320 miles (which the truck automatically drops to 160 miles when I hitch the trailer) and when I return I always have just over 50 miles range with the trailer. This means I have a max towing range of 90+50=140 miles and a comfortable towing range of ~120 miles. My average speed is probably around 55 mph (75 mph on the divided highway and 45 mph on some of the 2-lane roads) and the elevation gain is probably several hundred feet.

YMMV. 🙂

 

[ColeAK]

I routinely drive from Bend OR down to the Crane Prairie Reservoir towing my 30’ Airstream — a round trip distance of 90 miles. I concur with @ColeAK that the wind resistance is the biggest factor to consider. When I Ieave home I’m pretty close to an estimated range of 320 miles (which the truck automatically drops to 160 miles when I hitch the trailer) and when I return I always have just over 50 miles range with the trailer. This means I have a max towing range of 90+50=140 miles and a comfortable towing range of ~120 miles. My average speed is probably around 55 mph (75 mph on the divided highway and 45 mph on some of the 2-lane roads) and the elevation gain is probably several hundred feet.

YMMV. 🙂

Thanks for the real world input. Have you been in a scenario with a strong head wind for an extended period? One of my concerns is when I head south it is 120 miles before the first place I could charge (Campground with 30a) it isn’t uncommon for the first 70 miles of that to have a 30-50+ mph direct headwind, good news is it’s a tailwind on the way home. Experience with my Teslas is the efficiency is impacted much more from external factors then an ICE. Same drive in my model 3 with strong wind I’ve seen 450wh/mi when usual is ~270. I guess what I’m getting at is I’m concerned that if I can usually white knuckle it and make it the 120 miles with <10% remaining could it be an impossible the 30% of the time that it is windy?

With above you would get ~15% less running 65mph the entire distance. I had a 27’ airstream (sold it after 2 summers in Alaska) before my current outdoor RV. They have ~15-20% less frontal profile due to being lower, smaller, less head room, and more rounded.

Also for those unfamiliar with airstream most campers length is measured by the “box” but airstream do total length (tongue to bumper). So a 30’ AS is similar to a 24-26’ with most other brands and my 22’ ORV would be a 27’ AS.

 

[kenrosencpa]

I routinely drive from Bend OR down to the Crane Prairie Reservoir towing my 30’ Airstream — a round trip distance of 90 miles. I concur with @ColeAK that the wind resistance is the biggest factor to consider. When I Ieave home I’m pretty close to an estimated range of 320 miles (which the truck automatically drops to 160 miles when I hitch the trailer) and when I return I always have just over 50 miles range with the trailer. This means I have a max towing range of 90+50=140 miles and a comfortable towing range of ~120 miles. My average speed is probably around 55 mph (75 mph on the divided highway and 45 mph on some of the 2-lane roads) and the elevation gain is probably several hundred feet.

YMMV. 🙂

On a road trip you aren't going to be charging up to 100%. The R1T takes 42 minutes to charge from 10 to 80%. And another 14 minutes to get it up to 90%. So, if 120 miles is a comfortable towing range, refiling to 80% and 90% is 96 and 108 miles, respectively.

Rhumbliner confirms my calculations. A trip down to the Keys would require one stop along way. I could probably make it to Naples if I keep my speed down. However, for a road trip I would need to stop at least every 100 miles for a recharge.

 

[ColeAK]

On a road trip you aren't going to be charging up to 100%. The R1T takes 42 minutes to charge from 10 to 80%. And another 14 minutes to get it up to 90%. So, if 120 miles is a comfortable towing range, refiling to 80% and 90% is 96 and 108 miles, respectively.

Rhumbliner confirms my calculations. A trip down to the Keys would require one stop along way. I could probably make it to Naples if I keep my speed down. However, for a road trip I would need to stop at least every 100 miles for a recharge.

And this is with superchargers. Stopping for at least 45 min every 1.5-2 hrs drive time. Without SC it would be more like spend the night hooked up to 30/50a every 1.5-2 hrs drive time…

 

[kenrosencpa]

Not sure the Max pack makes economic sense for those that want to tow. Best it adds 30 to 35 miles and for me another $17,500 when you consider the loss of the credit.

 

[ColeAK]

Not sure the Max pack makes economic sense for those that want to tow. Best it adds 30 to 35 miles and for me another $17,500 when you consider the loss of the credit.

I agree but For me it would make the difference between making to the next charger or not. If I head north first charger is 130 miles, south first charger is 120 miles if I take the Seward highway and 145 miles if I take the sterling

 

[rhumbliner]

Have you been in a scenario with a strong head wind for an extended period?

Not towing the AS with my R1T.

I’ve had a few trips across Wyoming & Idaho with a strong headwind (somewhere in the range of 20-30 mph) in my Model S and then I experienced a drop of (very roughly) 15%-20% driving at 75-80 mph. So I would expect the numbers you put forth would be a reasonable expectation, but estimates are just so hard. Just for completeness sake I would mention some other factors such as elevation change, weather conditions, etc, but I’m sure you’re already aware of those.

I will be very curious to hear about your trip south if/when you attempt it. 😊

 

[rhumbliner]

On a road trip you aren't going to be charging up to 100%. The R1T takes 42 minutes to charge from 10 to 80%.

And this is with superchargers. Stopping for at least 45 min every 1.5-2 hrs drive time. Without SC it would be more like spend the night hooked up to 30/50a every 1.5-2 hrs drive time

It’s for this reason I would be hesitant to do a really long tow with my R1T. Add to that the uncertainty one experiences with the non-Tesla charging networks and I’d have a serious case of range anxiety. I don’t see myself giving up my diesel RAM with a 30-gal tank until Tesla opens up their charging network. Then I wouldn’t mind stopping every 120 miles for a 20-30 min charge when towing the AS.

My wife & I enjoy frequent stops and we don’t really try to cover large distances when we’re RV’ing. Is it obvious we’re retired? 😊

 

[GJG]

I haven’t attempted to tow with my R1T and don’t know how/if the range estimate that shows up is affected by putting the truck in ‘tow’ mode.

I also get about a 10 mile additional range estimate when I use the ‘Conserve’ setting while driving - using only the motors on the front two wheels.

I’ve owned trucks my entire life and on 90% of them I installed an additional saddle gas tank for added range especially when towing. I suggested to Rivian that they consider offering an additional battery possibly mounted in the bed for added range.

 

[rhumbliner]

I haven’t attempted to tow with my R1T and don’t know how/if the range estimate that shows up is affected by putting the truck in ‘tow’ mode.

I also get about a 10 mile additional range estimate when I use the ‘Conserve’ setting while driving - using only the motors on the front two wheels.

I’ve owned trucks my entire life and on 90% of them I installed an additional saddle gas tank for added range especially when towing. I suggested to Rivian that they consider offering an additional battery possibly mounted in the bed for added range.

As soon I plugged in my trailer lights (7 pin) my R1T switched into Tow mode, automatically, and dropped my range estimate by 50%. I actually appreciate Rivian being so up front about the hit you’ll take towing a trailer. As for the “saddle battery” what you’re really describing is the Max Pack which some folks here believe might not ever be offered. The problem with a larger/extra battery is the added weight and crazy added cost for not a lot of extra range.

 

[GJG]

When I ordered my R1T the Max battery was a $10,000 add on with an unknown delivery date on the vehicle and a likely presumption it might never happen. I don’t recall the range estimates for the Max battery but when I ordered the range add on did not pencil out with the dollar add on. My suggestion was a saddle battery that could be placed into the fronk or tunnel storage area. Removed for local use and self installed (plugged in) for long trips or towing.

This my first experience with an EV so I might be naive about the batteries weight, cooling requirements or other electronic/engineering issues. They built one hell of a truck so who knows what’s possible?

 

[ColeAK]

When I ordered my R1T the Max battery was a $10,000 add on with an unknown delivery date on the vehicle and a likely presumption it might never happen. I don’t recall the range estimates for the Max battery but when I ordered the range add on did not pencil out with the dollar add on. My suggestion was a saddle battery that could be placed into the fronk or tunnel storage area. Removed for local use and self installed (plugged in) for long trips or towing.

This my first experience with an EV so I might be naive about the batteries weight, cooling requirements or other electronic/engineering issues. They built one hell of a truck so who knows what’s possible?

For weight, a “saddle battery” would weigh at least ~15 lbs per kWh . So a battery large enough to add 10% (~30 miles) “rated range” would weight at least ~250 lbs.

 

[O. horridus]

I suggested to Rivian that they consider offering an additional battery possibly mounted in the bed for added range

Rivian actually got a patent for that back in early 2019, almost four years ago. But like ColeAK said above, the weight (and the price) probably makes it impractical to produce and sell at this time. It might never be practical, depending on how battery technology changes in the next few years.

 

[ColeAK]

Rivian actually got a patent for that back in early 2019, almost four years ago. But like ColeAK said above, the weight (and the price) probably makes it impractical to produce and sell at this time. It might never be practical, depending on how battery technology changes in the next few years.

For cost of battery back current cost is ~$130-150 per KWH for large full vehicle packs and ~$800-1000 for smaller <10 kWh packs. I’ve we go between the two That would put the above 10% boost, 250 lb, 27 kWh pack in the ~$10k price range.