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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Anyone out there like me staring to seriously reconsider following through with purchase of R1T or R1S? Proposed EV Tax credit would not allow EV Truck purchases of 74K to be eligible. Currently, I have a LE R1T spc’d out at $74,925. I can easily remove a few accessories to come in at or below an MSRP of $74k. WTM, over the last few months I’ve pretty much concluded I will not be receiving my R1T in 2021 given that production is moving at a snails pace and Rivian is really only selling vehicles to its own employees.

Therefore, I pretty much decided if I can’t get my R1T in 2021 then I plan to change my configuration to include the Max Pack Battery. With considerable to the climate where I live in the Midwest and how I’d use the truck something has been telling me the Max Pack is probably more appropriate for my needs. And that’s where the conundrum exists.

Just with the “lower - grade” Explorer Package and Max Pack the cost of the R1T would be $77,500. Therefore it would not be eligible. Assuming this all unfolds as described all of a sudden I seriously see me getting the Lightning now instead.

Based of the preliminary pricing I’ve seen I could get a Lightning Lariat w/ Extended Range Battery Pack for under $74K MSRP. And while for says the range target is 300miles, I’ve heard from many sources that it’s much high than that b/c Ford based they’re range estimate based on 1000k payload.

So all of a sudden the Lightning is looking like a better deal for me which is disappointing. I be a preorder customer for almost 3 years. Both RLT and Lightning at compelling vehicles. However, as I offer says “Everyboy and they’re uncle has and Ford F-150 and my gut prefers the Rivian. I like the culture that the company is establishing, design / innovation, and opportunity to own the first vehicle Model from a new U.S. based Ev car company.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I think it's too early to tell how this bill is going to pan out. My R1T build is safe under the current proposal but not the R1S. I'll still wait for the dust to settle before making any final decision.
Yeah, I’m working on the assumption that what has been published regarding qualifications and limits is accurate. Not to be self-serving, personally I think the proposed MSRP caps are too low.

Cars: 55k
Vans: 64k
SUV: 69k (R1S purchaser would really screwed)
Truck: 74k

Also, I heard a theory that the reason why Order Banks for Lightning did not open on 10/26 as anticipated is b/c Ford was trying to give more time for for this Bill which they say is “close” to being done to pass. Based on the final Bill Ford could revise its pricing structure to allow people purchasing more premium trims like the Lariat to be more likely eligible to qualify.

For Rivian they could also consider revising their pricing structure for R1T and R1S by making some features no longer Standard. However, I sure this would add complexity to a manufacturing process that’s in its infancy.
 

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Just with the “lower - grade” Adventure Package and Max Pack the cost of the R1T would be $77,500. Therefore it would not be eligible. Assuming this all unfolds as described all of a sudden I seriously see me getting the Lightning now instead.
The prices you quoted are for the EXPLORE trim — not Adventure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
You’re right. My mistake on that one. I tend to get them mixed up at times. Naming convention does not allow hierarchy between the two to be easily distinguishable. All other stated facts and / assumptions should check out though. Still curious on other people’s thoughts on this as I debate on what’s going to be the right decision for me.
 

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I'll be towing a camper, so need the Max battery pack regardless of whether I stay with the R1T I've presently configured or change to the R1S in 2022 when the larger battery is available for that model. This means that I'm locked into a range of between $83,000 to close to $90,000. I'm old enough to be looking at retirement, and frankly am considering the Rivian as my last car purchase, with the added benefit that it also is the most environmentally responsible choice I can make. For those reasons, I'm willing to stretch financially for it but frankly, can only stretch so far.

If the tax credit is not available for the Rivian, I will need to look elsewhere for a "forever car" in the $70k range. The preference would be a BEV, but as noted, I need extra range to be comfortable when towing. There is a possibility that by the time I could take delivery of an R1T or S Max (likely 2023 and 2024 respectively), the charging infrastructure in North America will be built out to the point that the Rivian Long Range variant would be acceptable. If that's the case, I could stick with Rivian. If not, lower trim levels of the F150 Lightning and the trl-motor Cybertruck fall in the $70k range (just barely for the latter). By 2024 however, there may be other BEV choices that can handle a camper of only 2,000 lbs. The fallback of course, would be an ICE vehicle, of which there are (and will be) many capable models in the sub-$70k range

Bottom line, is I plan to wait and see what happens, but the tax credit is definitely an important consideration.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Understandable, I’ve actually been renting a Truck for about 1.5 years. Previous vehicle was totaled. I chose not to purchase a new one b/c at that time I thought a Rivian delivery was not gonna be far off in the distant future. Fast forward through production delays and Lightning Reservation back up plan I dar say whichever company can get me a vehicle first I’ll purchase. However, I want to capitalize off of the EV Tax credit as it would result in a sizable reduction in my typical tax liability. I hope Rivian and even Ford consider revising the price structure and offering more options to allow one to prioritize necessary amenities as a means to qualify for Tax Credit. For example, while it would be great for have the premium Meridian Audio system that comes with the Adventure Package, I don’t absolutely need. Same thing can sauce for Level “whatever” autonomous driving. I just want Adaptive Cruise Control.
 

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I currently daily a ford truck and really do not expect them to be competition. I think of the R1S more of competition for the X5, or Range Rover. The Lightning is going after the traditional pickup truck customer, and will be more conventional. Add that to the fact that the 300 mile packs are essentially the same price and the Rivian is a clear winner for me, and I get a Ford discount.

My assumption with the delay is it has absolutely nothing to do with the tax credit. There is no EPA certification, no crash test or anything.

I have not followed the tax rebates yet, as I still have no delivery date, but isn't it still going to be a rebate against your tax liability? If it remains that way are you going to be able to take full advantage of it if you are retired?
 

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Anyone out there like me staring to seriously reconsider following through with purchase of R1T or R1S? Proposed EV Tax credit would not allow EV Truck purchases of 74K to be eligible. Currently, I have a LE R1T spc’d out at $74,925. I can easily remove a few accessories to come in at or below an MSRP of $74k. WTM, over the last few months I’ve pretty much concluded I will not be receiving my R1T in 2021 given that production is moving at a snails pace and Rivian is really only selling vehicles to its own employees.

Therefore, I pretty much decided if I can’t get my R1T in 2021 then I plan to change my configuration to include the Max Pack Battery. With considerable to the climate where I live in the Midwest and how I’d use the truck something has been telling me the Max Pack is probably more appropriate for my needs. And that’s where the conundrum exists.

Just with the “lower - grade” Explorer Package and Max Pack the cost of the R1T would be $77,500. Therefore it would not be eligible. Assuming this all unfolds as described all of a sudden I seriously see me getting the Lightning now instead.

Based of the preliminary pricing I’ve seen I could get a Lightning Lariat w/ Extended Range Battery Pack for under $74K MSRP. And while for says the range target is 300miles, I’ve heard from many sources that it’s much high than that b/c Ford based they’re range estimate based on 1000k payload.

So all of a sudden the Lightning is looking like a better deal for me which is disappointing. I be a preorder customer for almost 3 years. Both RLT and Lightning at compelling vehicles. However, as I offer says “Everyboy and they’re uncle has and Ford F-150 and my gut prefers the Rivian. I like the culture that the company is establishing, design / innovation, and opportunity to own the first vehicle Model from a new U.S. based Ev car company.
Anyone out there like me staring to seriously reconsider following through with purchase of R1T or R1S? Proposed EV Tax credit would not allow EV Truck purchases of 74K to be eligible. Currently, I have a LE R1T spc’d out at $74,925. I can easily remove a few accessories to come in at or below an MSRP of $74k. WTM, over the last few months I’ve pretty much concluded I will not be receiving my R1T in 2021 given that production is moving at a snails pace and Rivian is really only selling vehicles to its own employees.

Therefore, I pretty much decided if I can’t get my R1T in 2021 then I plan to change my configuration to include the Max Pack Battery. With considerable to the climate where I live in the Midwest and how I’d use the truck something has been telling me the Max Pack is probably more appropriate for my needs. And that’s where the conundrum exists.

Just with the “lower - grade” Explorer Package and Max Pack the cost of the R1T would be $77,500. Therefore it would not be eligible. Assuming this all unfolds as described all of a sudden I seriously see me getting the Lightning now instead.

Based of the preliminary pricing I’ve seen I could get a Lightning Lariat w/ Extended Range Battery Pack for under $74K MSRP. And while for says the range target is 300miles, I’ve heard from many sources that it’s much high than that b/c Ford based they’re range estimate based on 1000k payload.

So all of a sudden the Lightning is looking like a better deal for me which is disappointing. I be a preorder customer for almost 3 years. Both RLT and Lightning at compelling vehicles. However, as I offer says “Everyboy and they’re uncle has and Ford F-150 and my gut prefers the Rivian. I like the culture that the company is establishing, design / innovation, and opportunity to own the first vehicle Model from a new U.S. based Ev car company.
It is disappointing that an automaker supporting a Midwestern American town and it’s economy would be penalized because of politics over union worker status. There always has to be something divisive and critical—company isn’t union enough, vehicle isn’t cheap enough, buyer makes too much money—that we compartmentalize who gets benefits. We want to support climate change—but only after we politicize and tax it. I understand that we want to all pay our fair share. People that buy EVs are already paying the bulk of taxes as people who work hard and save. When is the last time that someone who could not afford an EV paid income taxes? Low income people are not buying EVs so let’s not pretend that we are offering a credit when it is offered and then taken away by nature of compartmentalizing the manufacturer values, vehicle cost and buyer income with a virtual signal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
It is disappointing that an automaker supporting a Midwestern American town and it’s economy would be penalized because of politics over union worker status. There always has to be something divisive and critical—company isn’t union enough, vehicle isn’t cheap enough, buyer makes too much money—that we compartmentalize who gets benefits. We want to support climate change—but only after we politicize and tax it. I understand that we want to all pay our fair share. People that buy EVs are already paying the bulk of taxes as people who work hard and save. When is the last time that someone who could not afford an EV paid income taxes? Low income people are not buying EVs so let’s not pretend that we are offering a credit when it is offered and then taken away by nature of compartmentalizing the manufacturer values, vehicle cost and buyer income with a virtual signal.

I agree with you for the most part except the suggestion that lower income people don’t work hard and save. There should not be an MSRP cap to qualify and it should not matter if a vehicle is manufactured by union workers or not. Those factors have nothing to do with the greater purpose of moving away from ICE vehicles.
 

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Anyone out there like me staring to seriously reconsider following through with purchase of R1T or R1S? Proposed EV Tax credit would not allow EV Truck purchases of 74K to be eligible. Currently, I have a LE R1T spc’d out at $74,925. I can easily remove a few accessories to come in at or below an MSRP of $74k. WTM, over the last few months I’ve pretty much concluded I will not be receiving my R1T in 2021 given that production is moving at a snails pace and Rivian is really only selling vehicles to its own employees.

Therefore, I pretty much decided if I can’t get my R1T in 2021 then I plan to change my configuration to include the Max Pack Battery. With considerable to the climate where I live in the Midwest and how I’d use the truck something has been telling me the Max Pack is probably more appropriate for my needs. And that’s where the conundrum exists.

Just with the “lower - grade” Explorer Package and Max Pack the cost of the R1T would be $77,500. Therefore it would not be eligible. Assuming this all unfolds as described all of a sudden I seriously see me getting the Lightning now instead.

Based of the preliminary pricing I’ve seen I could get a Lightning Lariat w/ Extended Range Battery Pack for under $74K MSRP. And while for says the range target is 300miles, I’ve heard from many sources that it’s much high than that b/c Ford based they’re range estimate based on 1000k payload.

So all of a sudden the Lightning is looking like a better deal for me which is disappointing. I be a preorder customer for almost 3 years. Both RLT and Lightning at compelling vehicles. However, as I offer says “Everyboy and they’re uncle has and Ford F-150 and my gut prefers the Rivian. I like the culture that the company is establishing, design / innovation, and opportunity to own the first vehicle Model from a new U.S. based Ev car company.
I‘m sure there are many people just like you all in the same boat.

Electric vehicles are expensive. Trucks are expensive. If you need a truck and this is to high a price tag no one would blame you you you bought something else. Maybe Toyota Tacoma. The Federal tax credit isn’t a done deal and change bewteen now and then Too. As far as I know it’s not a direct tax rebate but a credit. So everybodys financial situation will be different.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I‘m sure there are many people just like you all in the same boat.

Electric vehicles are expensive. Trucks are expensive. If you need a truck and this is to high a price tag no one would blame you you you bought something else. Maybe Toyota Tacoma. The Federal tax credit isn’t a done deal and change bewteen now and then Too. As far as I know it’s not a direct tax rebate but a credit. So everybodys financial situation will be different.

The cost of the truck is not the issue. It’s the fact that if the EV tax credit is approved based on the current known guidelines it would be pretty limiting on how much I could spend on my purchase of the R1T or even possibly the Lightning.

As a person who consistently has a significant tax liability, it would be hard not to take advantage of the EV tax credit to help reduce my typical tax liability.
 

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The cost of the truck is not the issue. It’s the fact that if the EV tax credit is approved based on the current known guidelines it would be pretty limiting on how much I could spend on my purchase of the R1T or even possibly the Lightning.

As a person who consistently has a significant tax liability, it would be hard not to take advantage of the EV tax credit to help reduce my typical tax liability.
Ok. I, with you.

my thought is. Don’t place any restrictions on the ev tax credit. None.
By and EV and get a tax credit. period


is that ok? Heck I dont know But seems fair to me. If this helps move more people into a EV’s I’m all for it.
 

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I agree with you for the most part except the suggestion that lower income people don’t work hard and save. There should not be an MSRP cap to qualify and it should not matter if a vehicle is manufactured by union workers or not. Those factors have nothing to do with the greater purpose of moving away from ICE vehicles.
That is a good point—over generalization and my bad. We were all there once as students and starting out our careers. I meant that those paying for more expensive EVs rather than less expensive ICE vehicles are those who are in a better financial position after working hard and saving. Thanks for the clarification.
 

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I believe the price caps everyone is concerned about only apply to the vehicles MSRP not the options you add at purchase. If this is the case the Large pack, Adventure trim, R1T falls perfectly in line. The Max pack may or may not be considered an "option" and therefore not qualify nor would the Adventure trim R1S. Because the bill plans to change the EV incentive to point of sale you should be able to confirm what or what doesn't qualify when Rivian calls to confirm your configuration for those receiving delivery starting in 2022.
 

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Yeah, I’m working on the assumption that what has been published regarding qualifications and limits is accurate. Not to be self-serving, personally I think the proposed MSRP caps are too low.

Cars: 55k
Vans: 64k
SUV: 69k (R1S purchaser would really screwed)
Truck: 74k

Also, I heard a theory that the reason why Order Banks for Lightning did not open on 10/26 as anticipated is b/c Ford was trying to give more time for for this Bill which they say is “close” to being done to pass. Based on the final Bill Ford could revise its pricing structure to allow people purchasing more premium trims like the Lariat to be more likely eligible to qualify.

For Rivian they could also consider revising their pricing structure for R1T and R1S by making some features no longer Standard. However, I sure this would add complexity to a manufacturing process that’s in its infancy.
Yes Rivian should adjust their pricing. When I order my Tesla Model Y. There was $5000 rebate in NJ for EVs under $55k. My total with Full self drive was 62k. I removed the FSD option which was 8k at the time. My total purchase price came down to $54k. Once I got the delivery and submitted for rebate, I added the FSD, it took literally 4 minutes to upgrade over the air. I got my $5k rebate check in 4 weeks.
I think Rivian can lower the price and add Driver + as an option.
 

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I believe the price caps everyone is concerned about only apply to the vehicles MSRP not the options you add at purchase. If this is the case the Large pack, Adventure trim, R1T falls perfectly in line. The Max pack may or may not be considered an "option" and therefore not qualify nor would the Adventure trim R1S. Because the bill plans to change the EV incentive to point of sale you should be able to confirm what or what doesn't qualify when Rivian calls to confirm your configuration for those receiving delivery starting in 2022.
No, the MSRP typically counts all the options and trim levels as part of the total price. this hurts Rivian big time.

This will end up being a problem for Ford Lightning as well because even though Ford advertised the Lightning as being available starting at around $40k everyone and their grandma knows you will not actually be able to take delivery of one at that price… or perhaps even the $60k trim level. Ford will prioritize the highest trim levels first to maximize profits and this means you will be at or around the $75-$80k price point if want an actual Lightning in your actual real life driveway anytime soon. And this doesn’t even incude the eventual Dealer Markup tacked on “market adjustment“ these guys have made so famous recently.

Ford says right on their website that the Lightning can currently be configured to over $90k and this doesn‘t even include any future price increases or larger battery options.

I wouldn’t be suprised if final the final bill ups the price point to $90k (anything Less than $100k to look good for Joe sixpack voters). We’ll see I guess.
 
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