[Jezroj]

Is there a reason that the Rivian wall charger seems harder than others to be rewired to be able to use as a NEMA plug. I had two NEMA plugs installed so that I would not be switching connectors between my Tesla and Rivian. I placed an order for a wall charger with my new truck in order to get extra mileage between my charging window of 9 pm to 7 am, since it charges slower than the Tesla. Everything I read says that the Wall Charger MUST be hardwired. How true is that or can I open it up and wire a male NEMA plug with the proper cable?

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

It is physically possible to install a pigtail. However, it is a code violation. I wouldn’t do it.

 

[Riviano]

Nobody will come to your house to arrest you if you install a plug on the charger. However for the safety of your house and your family you need to adjust the operating current of the charger to not exceed the rating of the plug cable. That is possible via dip switches inside the wall charger as shown in page 16 of the installation manual.

https://assets.rivian.com/2md5qhoeajym/4S5MJvKBWgDkPVcOEDkV4R/917d3a58bcb948a786ca17c3413e923a/wall-charger-installation-guide-en-us-20220128.pdf

 

[Livinginkaos]

The wall charger requires a 60 amp service. The nema is 50 amp max. While the charger states it may only utilize 48 amps during charging, you are still at the upper limit of the plug. For safety concerns they always size one step above. If you were to wire the NEMA plug onto your wall charger, you would be assuming all the liability if anything ever happened. And that's where the code violation is an issue. Whether or not anybody ever sees it. If there's a fire, or damage, they're going to find it. Also, considering that the charger is something that you utilize, usually while you're sleeping, it could be a fairly big safety concern since you're not awake to notice any issues.

 

[Riviano]

The wall charger requires a 60 amp service. The nema is 50 amp max. While the charger states it may only utilize 48 amps during charging, you are still at the upper limit of the plug. For safety concerns they always size one step above. If you were to wire the NEMA plug onto your wall charger, you would be assuming all the liability if anything ever happened. And that's where the code violation is an issue. Whether or not anybody ever sees it. If there's a fire, or damage, they're going to find it. Also, considering that the charger is something that you utilize, usually while you're sleeping, it could be a fairly big safety concern since you're not awake to notice any issues.

It requires 60A service only if you configure it to use 48A. It can be configured to use much less via internal switches.

 

[Livinginkaos]

It would still be non-compliant based on nameplate data.

 

[Riviano]

It would still be non-compliant based on nameplate data.

Have you read the installation manual? Rivian clearly specifies what wiring and breaker sizes are needed based on how much current it is configured to use.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Have you read the installation manual? Rivian clearly specifies what wiring and breaker sizes are needed based on how much current it is configured to use.

Rivian manual specifies hardwired-install only, and NEC has a provision that says any equipment installed contrary to manufacturer specs is not compliant... So unless Rivian releases a pigtail-ready EVSE, it cannot be code-compliant, regardless of what dipswitch settings you use.

 

[Riviano]

Rivian manual specifies hardwired-install only, and NEC has a provision that says any equipment installed contrary to manufacturer specs is not compliant... So unless Rivian releases a pigtail-ready EVSE, it cannot be code-compliant, regardless of what dipswitch settings you use.

Do you realize that it is impossible to use the Rivian charger without a plug? Or do you intend to hard wire the charger to your R1T/R1S? Of course not, you will plug it in. Plugs are not evil, they just need to be rated properly.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Do you realize that it is impossible to use the Rivian charger without a plug? Or do you intend to hard wire the charger to your R1T/R1S? Of course not, you will plug it in. Plugs are not evil, they just need to be rated properly.

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

Of course the J1772 is needed to plug into the EV. However, the input to the EVSE must be hardwired, per Rivian's instructions. NEC has a provision that states equipment must be installed in accordance with manufacturer recommendations. Rivian does not endorse use of a NEMA 14-50 pigtail with their EVSE, therefore it is not possible to be code-compliant with one using the Rivian Wall EVSE.

You can't just say "well there's a J1772 on one end, and that's a 'plug' therefore I can ignore manufacturer directions and install a NEMA 14-50P on the other end, since I want to think a plug-is-a-plug". It will physically work, but it will not be code compliant.

There are plenty of EVSEs that do endorse the use of a NEMA 14-50P pigtail, so just use one of those if your use case doesn't fit with a hard wired EVSE.

 

[Riviano]

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

Of course the J1772 is needed to plug into the EV. However, the input to the EVSE must be hardwired, per Rivian's instructions. NEC has a provision that states equipment must be installed in accordance with manufacturer recommendations. Rivian does not endorse use of a NEMA 14-50 pigtail with their EVSE, therefore it is not possible to be code-compliant with one using the Rivian Wall EVSE.

You can't just say "well there's a J1772 on one end, and that's a 'plug' therefore I can ignore manufacturer directions and install a NEMA 14-50P on the other end, since I want to think a plug-is-a-plug". It will physically work, but it will not be code compliant.

There are plenty of EVSEs that do endorse the use of a NEMA 14-50P pigtail, so just use one of those if your use case doesn't fit with a hard wired EVSE.

Show me where in the installation manual does it say the charger must be hardwired. Page 24 says "wiring type" is "hard-wired" which means it doesn't come with a plug cable, not that it must be hard-wired.

The Rivian portable EVSE that comes with the truck uses a 14-50P pigtail so clearly Rivian has nothing against it as long as it is used within its rated limits. The wall EVSE behaves the same way electrically as the portable one when it is configured to use the same current as the portable one. Both are equally safe to use with a 14-50P pigtail when configured to current levels the pigtail is rated for.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Show me where in the installation manual does it say the charger must be hardwired. Page 24 says "wiring type" is "hard-wired" which means it doesn't come with a plug cable, not that it must be hard-wired.

Where does it say that you can use a pigtail? What mechanism for strain relief did Rivian provide? AFAIK, it doesn't say you can use a pigtail, and they don't provide any strain relief -- which would be necessary.

They don't say you can use a pigtail.
They don't provide parts necessary to safely use a pigtail.
Under specifications they only list "hardwired".

Yet you seem to need more evidence?

The Rivian portable EVSE that comes with the truck uses a 14-50P pigtail so clearly Rivian has nothing against it as long as it is used within its rated limits. The wall EVSE behaves the same way electrically as the portable one when it is configured to the use the same current as the portable one. Both are equally safe to use with a 14-50P pigtail when configured to current levels the pigtail is rated for.

You seem to love false-equivalency. Product A supports feature X, and you seem to think that means Product B must also support feature X. That isn't how it works. That isn't how anything works.

 

[Riviano]

What

Where does it say that you can use a pigtail? What mechanism for strain relief did Rivian provide? AFAIK, it doesn't say you can use a pigtail, and they don't provide any strain relief -- which would be necessary.

They don't say you can use a pigtail.
They don't provide parts necessary to safely use a pigtail.
Under specifications they only list "hardwired".

Yet you seem to need more evidence?


You seem to love false-equivalency. Product A supports feature X, and you seem to think that means Product B must also support feature X. That isn't how it works. That isn't how anything works.

So you cannot point to where the manual says it must be hardwired.

The specifications say the wiring type is hard-wired because no pigtail is included. That is not the same as prohibiting a pigtail. Page 6 says this:

If local codes require a GFCI breaker for plug-in installation, Rivian recommends a hardwire installation.

Rivian recommends hardware installation for a specific case. In other cases they are not against plug-in installation.

Installing a pigtail isn't rocket science. You can obtain a strain release device at the same place you get the pigtail.

All EVSEs are essentially the same, a computer-controlled relay. Some have gimmicks like wifi and bluetooth access, but the power section in all of them works the same way. So comparing the portable and wall Rivian EVSEs is not a false equivalency.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Jesus you can’t read. It is hopeless.

 

[O. horridus]

BTW, the 2020 NEC does require a GFCI breaker for a plug-in EVSE.

 

[hazelnutz18]

Is there a reason that the Rivian wall charger seems harder than others to be rewired to be able to use as a NEMA plug. I had two NEMA plugs installed so that I would not be switching connectors between my Tesla and Rivian. I placed an order for a wall charger with my new truck in order to get extra mileage between my charging window of 9 pm to 7 am, since it charges slower than the Tesla. Everything I read says that the Wall Charger MUST be hardwired. How true is that or can I open it up and wire a male NEMA plug with the proper cable?

I just wired mine up and I would not suggest doing this. There is no space on the terminals to land another set of wires. It's to be on its own breaker. I recommend any other outlets be installed on their own breaker. Possibly a sub panel for all your EV charging needs.

 

[AudiQ8]

Interestingly my local inspector said an Ev charger is considered an appliance and MUST be installed into plug so there is a disconnect other than the breaker. So mine is into a plug, 50amp fuse.

 

[hazelnutz18]

Interestingly my local inspector said an Ev charger is considered an appliance and MUST be installed into plug so there is a disconnect other than the breaker. So mine is into a plug, 50amp fuse.

The NEC is still evolving on this but as I understand it, level 1 chargers (120V) can be cord & plug. Level 2 chargers (240V, 30-100A) cannot be plug connected. The Rivian Wall Charger is Level 2. I don't believe what you have installed is code compliant but your incpector gets final say.

From a practical perspective I don't think that there is a problem with your setup assuming the correct wire sizes etc. The vehicles are smart enough to stop power flow very quickly so if someone unplugged the NEMA 14-50 plug while you're vehicle was charging, the danger should be minimal. I'd suggest making sure the breaker is AFCI.

Can you post a picture of your charger and outlet? I'm very curious to see it. I'm guessing that SJ cord was used from the wall unit to the plug. The body of the wall unit is plastic and isn't made to support SJ cord (what is mentioned as strain-relieve in the above posts).

A plug is not an acceptable means of disconnect. A disconnect is a switch that can be locked - think of an AC condenser disconnect. Is there also a fuse in your setup along with a breaker?

The portable charger that comes with the vehicle is designed to work with 240V 50A outlet.

How has everything been working? What do you have the charger amperage set at?

 

[racekarl]

Interestingly my local inspector said an Ev charger is considered an appliance and MUST be installed into plug so there is a disconnect other than the breaker. So mine is into a plug, 50amp fuse.

Different jurisdictions adopt the NEC at different rates, so it's possible yours is using a pretty old version. Since the 2017 version, EVSEs have been called out specifically with their own set of requirements. These requirements include that an EVSE must be on a circuit with a GFCI breaker. Given that EVSEs all have their own on-board GFCI, and that having two on the same circuit can cause phantom trips, for all intents and purposes a newly installed EVSE must be hard-wired.

 

[Riviano]

Level 2 chargers (240V, 30-100A) cannot be plug connected.

Level 2 chargers can be and frequently are plug connected. The R1T comes with a plug-in level 2 charger, the wall mounted one is optional. There are many level 2 NEMA 14-50 charging spots one can plug into, as can be seen in the plugshare.com website.