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Rivian Battery Options (kWh): 105, 135, or 180?

14708 Views 25 Replies 13 Participants Last post by SlipperyGary, Oct 24, 2021

eHauler

Discussion Starter · Aug 20, 2019 (Edited)

The Rivian R1T & R1S will be available with three battery options ranging from 240-410 miles of range.

105 kWh: 240 miles >$72,500
135 kWh: 310 miles >$80,000
180 kWh: 410 miles >$90,000

135 kWh and 180 kWh versions will be available from launch, with a smaller and cheaper 105 kWh version offered later on. 105 kWh pricing starts from $69,000 for the R1T pickup and $72,500 for R1S SUV. Guesstimated starting price of the 135 kWh version is around $80,000 after learning that Rivian CEO, RJ Scaringe said "the big-range [180 kWh] vehicle that's sub-$90,000”
Out of the three, which one are you guys planning to get and why?

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

wbdamron

· #2 · Aug 21, 2019

The 400+ mile range is what really got me to thinking seriously about a total electric vehicle and say goodbye to my GMC Denali. I take 2-3 trips a year of 500 miles or more (1-way) and had one this past weekend. I visualized what it would be like having to stop for a charge and finding a charging station along the way and where I was staying (less than a 1/2 mile away). Feel more confident in this vehicle than ever, but still firm on the 180 due to the mileage capability. Put down my deposit around August 1.

EyeOnRivian

· #3 · Aug 21, 2019

The mileage you have for each battery pack is for the R1S. Rivian lists the R1T mileage 10 miles less for each battery pack. The R1T is less aerodynamic than the R1S.

eHauler said:
Pricing of the R1T pickup starts from $69,000 and $72,500 (135 kWh) with similar variations in price expected as you move up/down the battery sizes.

What I've read and understood is slightly different. The base/starting price is for the 105 kWh BP with the R1T starting at $69k and R1S at $72.5k.

In addition, RJ Scaringe has said “We will have a version of the big-range vehicle that's sub-$90,000” which of course implies the 180 kWh BP. Using those price points one could extrapolate an estimate for the 135 kWh BP around $80k.

Reactions: 2

eHauler

Discussion Starter · #4 · Aug 22, 2019

Thanks for the clarification. Even at a much lower mileage range, I don't know anyone that actually needs more than 50. Even when traveling long distances the 105 kWh battery range gives us lots of run way till we're able to charge again.

EyeOnRivian

· #5 · Aug 22, 2019

eHauler said:
Thanks for the clarification.

Sure, no problem, though you might want to consider updating your OP to avoid confusion.

eHauler said:
Even at a much lower mileage range, I don't know anyone that actually needs more than 50. Even when traveling long distances the 105 kWh battery range gives us lots of run way till we're able to charge again.

If I'm understanding what you're trying to say, there are plenty of people who have daily, round-trip commutes that exceed 50 (miles) that also don't have access to a charger while at work. An even if they do, with the increase in EVs there's probably a good chance they will be in use by other EVs. This segment of drivers might not be the majority but there is a significant number.

Plus, you have to remember these mileage ranges Rivian provides are under optimal conditions. When you start factoring in weather, hills, cargo loads, driving style, etc., these ranges are much less. Moreover, you're not going to use the full mileage range. Just a no one drives their ICE vehicle from full to empty, the same is true for EVs where you're not going to drive from 100% charge to 0% charge. On top of that your mileage range is lowered more as most manufactures of EVs recommend only charging up to 80 to 90%. Charging to 100% all the time not only takes longer but it is my understanding it shortens the life of the battery. Same with running it down to 0% SOC. So if we apply an approximate range of 10 to 90%, that 105 kWh BP with an estimate range of 240 miles has a much lower practical range at 192 miles (80% of 240). Then subtract out the factors previously mentioned (weather, load, etc) brings that range down even more, say around 140 or so miles. (Ball-parking here) Safe to say that would significantly limit your choices for traveling to any distant weekend adventures without having to frequently stop to recharge assuming charging stations are available.

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eHauler

Discussion Starter · #6 · Aug 22, 2019 (Edited)

@EyeOnRivian Considering all you said about realities of range compared to the numbers manufactures report (likely for the marketing effect they have), what would you say is a reasonable estimate of actual, real-world mileage for the average consumer? 60% of manufacture reported range?

Sorry, just edited my OP with the correct numbers, thanks!

EyeOnRivian

· #7 · Aug 23, 2019

eHauler said:
what would you say is a reasonable estimate of actual, real-world mileage for the average consumer?

That's really hard to answer because of all the possible variables that can affect the range which can easily differ from driver to driver. E.g. someone living in the south during winter versus someone living in northern states. And even within those areas people will have different driving styles and charging strategies (full vs partial charges and/or frequency of Level 2 versus Level 3 (fast) charging), driving in the flatter Midwest versus say in mountainous areas like in the Rookies, etc. Plus, battery packs tend to lose range over time (frequency of charging cycles). There may be some charts or studies available for existing EVs where you might be able to extrapolate some range figures that may fit your driving/charging scenario but until we get some real world data from mileage logged with a Rivian, it's all just loose projections. The main point is don't expect to get the advertise range similarly with MPGs with ICE vehicles. As the saying goes, "your mileage may vary" and clearly it will even with a BEV.

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Tostik

· #8 · Aug 23, 2019

EyeOnRivian said:
.....you have to remember these mileage ranges Rivian provides are under optimal conditions. When you start factoring in weather, hills, cargo loads, driving style, etc., these ranges are much less. Moreover, you're not going to use the full mileage range. Just a no one drives their ICE vehicle from full to empty, the same is true for EVs where you're not going to drive from 100% charge to 0% charge. On top of that your mileage range is lowered more as most manufactures of EVs recommend only charging up to 80 to 90%. Charging to 100% all the time not only takes longer but it is my understanding it shortens the life of the battery. Same with running it down to 0% SOC. So if we apply an approximate range of 10 to 90%, that 105 kWh BP with an estimate range of 240 miles has a much lower practical range at 192 miles (80% of 240). Then subtract out the factors previously mentioned (weather, load, etc) brings that range down even more, say around 140 or so miles. (Ball-parking here) Safe to say that would significantly limit your choices for traveling to any distant weekend adventures without having to frequently stop to recharge assuming charging stations are available.

Charging to 100% for the occasional road trip is not a problem. It's fine to do if you need it. And I've watched numerous road trip videos where the BEV gets significantly better than EPA rated range if driven at 55 mph, sometimes up to 20% better. Of course, the range plummets if you drive at 75 mph. Seems 65 mph is about where you get the EPA range on a highway drive on most EVs. And Bjørn Nyland got the EPA rated range of 204 miles on an Audi E-Tron when the temp was 23F by driving 55 mph.

And go check out Plugshare for the CCS fast charging structure that's going up, especially Electrify America. EA has about 80% of the interstate covered with their 150/350 kW chargers. Throw in EVgo and Charge Point, and it works out to quite a system that's already there. By the time Rivians are reaching their customers next year, the system will be significantly better than now.

EyeOnRivian

· #9 · Aug 23, 2019

Tostik said:
Charging to 100% for the occasional road trip is not a problem. It's fine to do if you need it.

Agree. I wasn't implying to never charge to 100%, just don't do it frequently. Certainly for, as you say, the occasional road trip will not have that much affect on the battery pack over its lifetime.

You're absolutely correct about the different speeds you drive an EV. Good reference with the actual MPHs as I've read that too. That's what I was getting at when I mentioned "driving style" without getting into the specifics. Driving style would also include things that affect ICE vehicles like jackrabbit starts.

In addition to PlugShare, check out A Better Route Planner website. The list of EV models to select from now includes both Rivians, R1T and R1S, broken-down by their 3 battery pack options, for a total of 6 Rivian options you can select which helps ABRP plan your route which includes estimating your range before needing to stop and recharge. Note, each of the six Rivian options have an "alpha" indication in the selection list. I suspect this is due to the two Rivian EAVs are still pre-production hence no public data for ABRP to use, other than the vehicle specs released by Rivian which as Rivian has indicated can change by the time their EAVs finally go into production.

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eHauler

Discussion Starter · #10 · Aug 26, 2019

Leased Rivian's should be the ultimate test.
Not many people who lease give much though to stuff like this, as an actual owner would,
Thus, higher potential of stressed batteries.

EyeOnRivian

· #11 · Aug 26, 2019

Possibly. It depends how long the lease agreement is. I get the impression poor battery charging and management habits can affect the battery's capacity sooner than latter. So it would behoove those who lease to pay attention to this or they are not only affecting their experience with the vehicle while they have it but also the trade-in value or whatever the term is when you return the vehicle when the lease is up. (I've never leased but have family and friends that have and talk about it. Depending how Rivian writes up the leasing agreement, assuming they offer one, I would definitely be interested in exploring that option.)

Given that these will be Rivian's first generation EAVs, I can see leasing being a popular option, however, this is a little of putting the cart before the horse. To my knowledge Rivian has not indicated one way or the other if they will be offering a leasing option. I doubt they will at least initially but perhaps down the road.

eHauler

Discussion Starter · #12 · Aug 27, 2019

Rivian can get around it by offering a subscription program. One price, no concerns, just drive.

EyeOnRivian

· #13 · Aug 28, 2019

eHauler said:
Rivian can get around it by offering a subscription program. One price, no concerns, just drive.

Hmm, interesting, ala the Atlis Motors finance model. A monthly car payment that never goes away ... or would you structure it differently than Atlis'?

Reactions: 1

eHauler

Discussion Starter · #14 · Aug 28, 2019

EyeOnRivian said:
Hmm, interesting, ala the Atlis Motors finance model. A monthly car payment that never goes away ... or would you structure it differently than Atlis'?

While saying "a monthly payment that never goes away" might sound bad on the surface, the upsides make up for it. You're always in something relatively new. Part of what you're paying is for the ease of "ownership", so i'll admit that.

KenJ

· #15 · Mar 10, 2021

wbdamron said:
The 400+ mile range is what really got me to thinking seriously about a total electric vehicle and say goodbye to my GMC Denali. I take 2-3 trips a year of 500 miles or more (1-way) and had one this past weekend. I visualized what it would be like having to stop for a charge and finding a charging station along the way and where I was staying (less than a 1/2 mile away). Feel more confident in this vehicle than ever, but still firm on the 180 due to the mileage capability. Put down my deposit around August 1.

😉

@Boise

· #16 · May 26, 2021

Has Rivian actually built and tested the 180kWh R1T or is that a goal for Jan. 2022?

Reactions: 1

Sparky

· #17 · Jul 22, 2021

eHauler said:
@EyeOnRivian Considering all you said about realities of range compared to the numbers manufactures report (likely for the marketing effect they have), what would you say is a reasonable estimate of actual, real-world mileage for the average consumer? 60% of manufacture reported range?

Sorry, just edited my OP with the correct numbers, thanks!

If one drives on flat roads, no snow, and not in extreme hot or cold weather than the mileage numbers are reasonable. Keep in mind like your cell phone, battery life will get shorter over time. And if a manufacturer disappears than battery, body components, motor drives, ECM will be next to impossible to locate and afford

eHauler

Discussion Starter · #18 · Jul 22, 2021

Sparky said:
If one drives on flat roads, no snow, and not in extreme hot or cold weather than the mileage numbers are reasonable. Keep in mind like your cell phone, battery life will get shorter over time. And if a manufacturer disappears than battery, body components, motor drives, ECM will be next to impossible to locate and afford

Very true. It helps that charging infrastructure is constantly improving to resulting in us driving far fewer miles to the nearest charging station. Rivian alone has aggressive plans for this and Tesla said their network will support all EVs by the end of this year.

Wildabeest

· #19 · Jul 23, 2021

eHauler said:
Very true. It helps that charging infrastructure is constantly improving to resulting in us driving far fewer miles to the nearest charging station. Rivian alone has aggressive plans for this and Tesla said their network will support all EVs by the end of this year.

You might want to check the “all” part of that statement. He didn’t say “all”. Just “other EVs”. I’d also caution inferring to much from an Elon tweet vs. an official statement from Tesla. The hit rate on his tweets matching reality is somewhere less than 50%.

Reactions: 1

eHauler

Discussion Starter · #20 · Jul 23, 2021

Wildabeest said:
You might want to check the “all” part of that statement. He didn’t say “all”. Just “other EVs”. I’d also caution inferring to much from an Elon tweet vs. an official statement from Tesla. The hit rate on his tweets matching reality is somewhere less than 50%.

That is correct.

Hopefully he follows through with that statement but it could just be a way boost Tesla stock a bit.

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