Rivian Forum – Rivian R1T & R1S News, Pricing & Order... banner

1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
699 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
We have our first idea of what Amazon will be getting out of its $700 million investment in Rivian. Jeff Bezos announced that Amazon has ordered 100,000 delivery vans for its fleet. The vans will reportedly be deployed some time between 2021 and 2024.

This is pretty interesting since Rivian hasn't mentioned any other models yet aside from the R1T and R1S. But it will definitely keep them busy as they prepare for their big launch.


 

·
Registered
Joined
·
501 Posts
Actually other Rivian models were on the table a while ago. Its just that a small percent of buyers have commercial needs, when they do, you rarely hear about it. Do you think there will be some sharing of powertrain components between these and our R1T/R1S versions?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
446 Posts
This is a pretty smart move by Amazon to add some more money into Rivian for production.

@eHauler, I think there will be some powertrain similarities to the R1S and R1T, I'd be surprised if the vans are completely different than the trucks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
699 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Actually other Rivian models were on the table a while ago. Its just that a small percent of buyers have commercial needs, when they do, you rarely hear about it. Do you think there will be some sharing of powertrain components between these and our R1T/R1S versions?
You're right @eHauler, I should've worded that better.

I think the vans will share components with the R1S and R1T as well, it makes the most sense in terms of cost.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
446 Posts
This is an interesting article that goes through some of the takeaways from Amazon's order.
https://www.greentechmedia.com/arti...tric-delivery-van-order-with-rivian#gs.6h2tnr
1. Not the only corporate to embrace EVs, but the biggest

On September 19, Amazon announced its order for 100,000 Rivian electric delivery vans. These vehicles are planned to enter service by 2024, with the initial units shipped in 2021. They will likely serve the 80 Amazon fulfillment centers in North America and potentially more than 500 Whole Foods Markets (in addition to any additional facilities that Amazon brings online in the coming half-decade).

Amazon is not the only Fortune 500 company to go all-in on replacing their fleets with electric or hydrogen vehicles to advance their sustainability goals, but the 100,000-truck order is significantly larger than those made to date by other leaders. For example, earlier this year Anheuser-Busch InBev announced orders for 840 electric and hydrogen semitrailers from Tesla and Nikola as part of its commitment to power 100 percent of its directly operated delivery vehicles with renewable energy by 2025.

2. Big promises from Rivian

Rivian has been generating buzz for 10 years, while raising $1.55 billion from strategic investors — Ford, Cox Automotive and now-customer Amazon across three rounds.

Rivian only showcased its first production vehicle design early this year and has yet to deliver a production vehicle. If delivered in 2024, the Amazon order alone will give Rivian a 1.7 percent market share among passenger EVs across North America.


Delivery may pose a challenge for this 10-year-old EV manufacturer. However, there are some interesting possibilities that could enable the company to scale operations more rapidly, as it still remains to be seen how much of the production process will remain in-house versus outsourced.

For example, Rivian has announced a plan to develop a "next-generation battery electric vehicle" with Ford based on Rivian's battery platform. Could Ford step in as a potential manufacturing partner for some portion of what Rivian has sold to Amazon or seeks to sell to private consumers?

3. Market moving beyond e-buses

Innovation is leading to greater energy density and lower-cost batteries. In turn, these advances are enabling auto manufacturers to increase range without having to equally scale the size and weight of the battery or the cost of the vehicle. This is bringing EVs closer to the range and total cost of ownership of traditional ICE vehicles.

To date, e-buses have been the leading commercial vehicle segment for non-rail transport electrification in the top EV markets of China, the U.S. and the EU. There are 400,000 e-buses on the road today.

However, e-bus dominance may falter as energy density continues to grow, battery prices continue to fall (Wood Mackenzie forecasts a 49 percent drop between 2017 and 2025), and new electric light, medium- and heavy-duty commercial vehicle models become available for intracity and intercity travel.

This in turn is leading auto manufacturers to develop new models for various medium- and heavy-duty applications, including various light- and medium-duty trucks, semitrailers, buses and even garbage trucks — enabling orders like the Amazon/Rivian deal.

Despite the continued growth of the e-bus market, Wood Mackenzie expects a new era of diversification of EVs on the road around the globe. Amazon’s fleet is a sign of things to come.

4. Utilities: The promise and complexity of fleet electrification

The coming era of EV fleets is fantastic news for electric utilities in the medium to long term, as it will provide a boost to electricity demand.

However, it does raise some major questions that are not easy to answer for regulated utility operating companies — namely, how will these fleets charge? After we heard the news, the WoodMac team did some back-of-the-napkin modeling about impact on the grid.

Isaac Maze-Rothstein with our Grid Edge team posited that with battery sizes that could easily range from 105 kilowatt-hours (230 miles) to 185 kilowatt-hours (400 miles), high-power Level 2 chargers (around 20 kilowatts) could work for Amazon's delivery application.

Assuming charging occurs at a rate of only 20 kilowatts, this single fleet could hypothetically lead to a nationwide increase in demand of up to 2 gigawatts, if all of these vehicles had a corresponding charging outlet and charged at the same time. This is a severe and unlikely scenario that would only occur under conditions such as a rate structure that incentivized simultaneous charging.

Even if this scenario were to occur, an additional 2 gigawatts during peak periods would not create significant strain on wholesale markets across the U.S., especially as these vehicles would likely do most of their charging at night, when wind power is more abundant and power demand is typically at its lowest.

Yet while the wholesale market can accommodate 2 gigawatts of additional demand, even a fraction of that demand could exceed the local capacity available to individual sites (i.e., the distribution grid near fleet depots). Increased demand at depot facilities could necessitate extensive electrical service upgrades for the local network.

The severity of this challenge could range from a head-scratcher — a warehouse next to a underloaded substation taking on 10 vehicles (or 200 kilowatts of potential demand) — to a migraine — a fulfillment center in an urban center requiring 200 vehicles or 4 megawatts of worst-case scenario load in an already-congested location.

The seriousness of the problem will hinge on the density of local development, local electricity headroom (i.e., spare infrastructure capacity), vehicle charging and operating patterns, and surprisingly enough, how the distribution grid is planned.

One idea is to simply rate-base the additional service costs (bigger transformers, potentially, larger feeders, etc.). While this might ultimately be the business model that a utility employs, the share and type of equipment a utility uses to address this e-mobility need is not so simple.

Today, utilities need to juggle potential traditional infrastructure upgrades with rate reform, large fleet owners’ transportation operations and strategies, and incentives for investment in local distributed energy resources. DERs will be key for fleet depots, but scalable depot models and winning companies remain uncertain.

The value of electricity resilience changes for companies as their fleets electrify. Distributed generation and/or on-site storage may become standard at depots to reduce the risk that entire fleets are without power for multihour or multiday periods.

This creates new opportunities that many vendors and several utilities are already seeking to capitalize on for developing, building, operating, maintaining and maybe owning the on-site EV and distributed energy resource infrastructure. No dominant model exists today for how to design or calculate the value of resilience for depot facilities, something that may never fully be standardized due to the variance in facility operations.

What is clear is that the construction and operation of EV and DER facilities for depots will cost billions of dollars over the next decade, an infrastructure opportunity that many companies see as opening up a path for strategic growth.

Next steps
The five-year wait for Amazon’s Rivian order to be fulfilled may seem like an eternity for cleantech enthusiasts. But it's a blink of an eye for the utility industry that makes planning and operations changes over the span of decades.

This order is a wake-up call for companies with large vehicle fleets, electric utility executives and state and national regulators alike.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
446 Posts
Sean Mitchell talks about Rivian making the delivery vans for Amazon. His main concern is whether or not Rivian can secure enough battery cell supply to meet this huge demand. He suggests it could come from a partnership with LG Chem for a Gigafactory.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
699 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Rivian aren't the only ones that are going to be making electric deliver vehicles. Mercedes has been making one of their own called the eActros.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
446 Posts
Rivian aren't the only ones that are going to be making electric deliver vehicles. Mercedes has been making one of their own called the eActros.

That's definitely a different approach than what Rivian seems to be doing, but still pretty cool.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
699 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
UPS is getting into the electric delivery van business as well. They've partnered with a company called Arrival that's based in the UK. They plan on co-developing 10,000 electric vans.

UPS Electric Delivery Van
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
446 Posts
There's another competitor in the electric van market. Karma has revealed their E-Flex van platform. They claim it has a 200 mile electric range and a 400 mile range with a range extender.


Karma E-Flex Van
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
699 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Apparently this van platform is a giant hoax. Someone from Karma reached out to Jalopnik and from the looks of it that place is in shambles.

The problem is that, according to our source, the E-Flex platforms shown are “movie props,” with only one actually capable of being driven. Our source says they themselves “helped build half of it,” and that the chassis being shown is simply a production Revero GT chassis that has been modified, and not a new, unique—albeit Revero GT-derived—platform as suggested.

Our source states that the E-Flex platforms being shown, as in this picture from Karma here, are simply production Revero unibodies taken from the production line and cut down. Our source claims that “nothing has been proven to function whatsoever.”


 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top