[Yossarian]

I don't think that the results of the TFL test are a surprise to anyone. They do however illustrate the need for a more robust charging infrastructure and the value of a large capacity battery.

 

[Yossarian]

I wasn't necessarily surprised by the results, just their choice of trailer, methodology and compilation of their results. Here's my rant from another thread.

TFL Studios whined for months to get this truck, had it for a week and this is the range while towing test they planned to complete?

An R1T can tow up to 11,000 lbs. They towed a 2000 lb teardop.
They either chose a tiny trailer relative to the maximum towing capacity (11,000 lbs), or were forced to tow a tiny trailer by Rivian, or went for the least expensive option because Colorado Teardrop gave them a loaner or paid them to use their trailer.
It would have been way more helpful to have least towed with 50% of the rated towing capacity.
What was the point in demonstrating that the Tundra would be able to travel farther than the R1T while towing? Even an idiot would've known this in advance. The real question was how to the range reductions for each vehicle compare? What is the comparable MPG?
Did the R1T's range reduce by 50%?
Did the Tundra's reduce by less?
What was the exact distance travelled by each vehicle?s
What was the exact time so we can calculate the average speed?
What was the final MPG for the Tundra?
What was the comparable cost for the trip in each vehicle using Electrify America's rates and the current gas prices in Colorado?
I know Andre put in a long day completing this test, but what the heck!

Great observations and very valid questions.

 

[Yossarian]

For towing aerodynamics (or lack there of) effects consumption more then weight. A camper will contribute to much more range reduction then this truck on a flat. So even a camper that weighs half as much will lead to much higher Wh/mi then what they did here.

I understand that the aerodynamics of a towed load can have a more significant impact on range than weight, but does something like a camper really have more drag than a pick-up truck sitting naked on a flatbed?

My interest is a bit parochial, as I plan to tow a camper and am really trying to get a handle on the range penalty. In my case, the load is a larger teardrop-style camper that is about 89" at its rounded front and well under 2,000 lbs with water, propane and gear (its a [email protected] 320 BD)

Perhaps its wishful thinking on my part, but I been using 30-35% as the ball park expected range reduction. This is based on nothing more than knowing that at max towing capacity with a decidedly un-aero load, Rivian experienced a 50% reduction and my [email protected] should not be quite as tough of a tow.

 

[Yossarian]

Yes campers are much less aerodynamic then a pickup on a flat dolly. It’s essentially pulling a wall through the wind. I’ve towed a camper 10k-20k miles a summer consistently for the last 15 years all over Alaska and NW Canada. Had a 25’ airstream then 7 years ago switched to an ORV 22BHS and My brother has a 17’ rPod. Towing the rPod I get ~15% better mpg even though it weights less then half of my ORV. I’ve also towed my old 80 on a flat dolly, with that I had 1/2 the mpg decrease I get with my camper.
I noticed no difference between the airstream and ORV in terms of mpg or aerodynamics. Got rid of the AS as they are not insulated well to the cold (ever been in an aluminum canoe on cold water?), and compared to other similar size campers have minimal storage space, and are quite cramped inside (low headroom, no sliders).

Based on the math I’ve done based on my towing data. I expect a ~600-650+ Wh/mi increase over baseline in consumption pulling my camper on flat ground at 55-60 mph. That will put the Rivian will be ~1000-1100+ Wh/mi. With a [email protected] using similar math I think at least 800-900 Wh/mi.


Do you own the [email protected]? If not I would look at A-liners. For a minimal camper they should get noticeably better range since they are a pop up.

Appreciate the info, and quite frankly, it is the kind of thing that gives me pause when it comes to making the switch to a BEV.

Using the more conservative 900 Wh/mi, the effective range of an R1T Max towing a 15', 1,300 lb trailer would be well under 200 miles. Since I hope to get the R1S with whatever larger battery pack Rivian can fit in there - likely to be a fair bit smaller than the 180kWh Max in the T - I could be looking at an effective range under 150 miles. Add the impact of cold or hot weather, and I could be faced with recharging every 100 miles or so. That would seem to rule out exploring much of North America, at least until the charging infrastructure improves dramatically.

Hopefully, more real world data will be available between now and the time I can take delivery of a Rivian (my guess is that the R1S longer range version won't start shipping until close to 2025). And hopefully, that data will be more encouraging, If it turns out however that towing even a small camper really does reduce range by half, I'll need to wait for the next generation of BEVs with greater capability before making the switch.

 

[Yossarian]

The only positive here is if you camp at sites with hookups most have 30a or 50a. So when you arrive plug in the truck and it will charge overnight.

For me in Alaska I figure I need at least 250 miles while towing. That would make me not have to charge while in route to most places I go in one day. That can get me to Homer or Denali, then stay the night to charge on the site power.

I will say don’t get too hung up on charging. I’ve had a Tesla in AK for 8 years. We just got our first super charger in Alaska back in November. Although not towing with it and I regularly travel ~250-280 miles round trip with no charging infrastructure with with our 300 mile LR model 3. There are quite a lot of teslas up here.

My camper is a Boondock model, designed to allow towing to and camping in more remote places. Moreover, it's equipped with 300 watts of solar charging, dual LiFePO4 batteries, ample water storage and propane-powered cooking and heating, all with an eye to supporting a fair amount of rustic camping. Seaching out campsites with hookups in order to charge my tow vehicle is certainly an option, but one filled with irony, particularly given that Rivian bills their offerings as "Adventure Vehicles".