[Broker21]

Statistics show that a very small percentage of SUVs as well as Trucks setup for Off-Roading ever see any Off-Road activity. The majority will be daily commuting vehicles to work and the mall. I include myself in this group as I have own multiple SUVs from a Jeep Wagoneer in the 80's, The best being Toyota LandCruiser and 4-Runner in the 90's, and the WORST a Range Rover and Mercedes GL63 AMG in early to recent 2000's. Just before the announcement of the Rivian, I returned to the Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit with the HEMI and the complete luxury and towing package. Other than pulling a trailer maybe 3 or 4 days a year, I would like a vehicle that's very reliable, comfortable and stylish with large sport wheels and tires, maybe a 24 inch. A good lighting package and most importantly the LARGEST BATTERY (180khw) PACKAGE for towing and road trips, as I have become less of a fan of air travel.

 

[Yossarian]

Couldn't agree more and in fact, I started a thread on the R1S sub-forum called "The most important option" about the Max (180kWh) battery package.

I too will be towing long-distances and to some rather remote areas, so range is key. Last Thurs, I emailed Rivian customer service emphasizing this and asking some specific questions about the Max battery package as it relates to the R1S I pre-ordered. I will post Rivian's response if and when I receive it.

While I understand that the Max is available now on the R1T, I don't really want a pickup truck. If I'm forced to go with a truck, I will instead opt for the tri-motor CyberTruck which has a 500+ mi range and is substantially less expensive even after adding the FSD option and taking the Federal tax credit into account.

Hopefully, the Max will be available for delivery with my R1S in 2022.

 

[Chris S]

If you're concerned about max range, towing, off road ability, ride, or even looks IMO (admittedly subjective), 24 inch wheels aren't the way to go.

 

[Yossarian]

If you're concerned about max range, towing, off road ability, ride, or even looks IMO (admittedly subjective), 24 inch wheels aren't the way to go.

Never been a fan of large-diameter wheels myself and can understand why they are not helpful for towing or for off road use, but wouldn't their stiffness and decreased rolling resistance actually help to increase range? I'm not sure what it meant by a "lighting package" but assuming we're talking about exterior downlighting, this would surely eat up some amperage though.

 

[Chris S]

Never been a fan of large-diameter wheels myself and can understand why they are not helpful for towing or for off road use, but wouldn't their stiffness and decreased rolling resistance actually help to increase range? I'm not sure what it meant by a "lighting package" but assuming we're talking about exterior downlighting, this would surely eat up some amperage though.

Larger wheels generally weigh more, and all else being equal, result in lower efficiency & range.

 

[StillCrazy]

If my experience with range on my Tesla Model 3 LR is any indication, you won't be towing long distances with the R1S or R1T even with Max battery. My Tesla states 352 mile range, but if you actually go on the highway at highway speeds (75 in Florida), the max I can get is about 180 miles (I do have aftermarket Vossen Wheels). I expect a similar drop off in range with the Rivian's, possibly even worse considering they are less aerodynamic than the Tesla. Add in a trailer and I bet the range while towing even 5K is less than 150 miles. My gas 1500 Ram Limited gets half the mileage towing that it does normally (which is horrendous as it is) and my diesel 3500 Ram gets about a third worse mileage while towing (usually a heavy 14k+ load).

I don't understand why EV companies aren't required to post expected Highway Range just like gas cars post city and highway mpg. Who cares how many miles you can drive in the city at 45mph??? You can charge it at home to full every day if you want. You only care about range when traveling...usually on the highway!! I think it will be a few years until EV's are advertising 600+ mile ranges before any have an actual useful range towing a load. I have a reservation for both the R1S and R1T, but do not plan on keeping both at the same time anymore due to this range issue. I plan on getting the Launch Edition SUV first and then waiting for the Max Battery on the R1T. We'll see which one I sell based on how all this shakes out in the real world.

 

[timesinks]

The efficiency difference between city and highway is on the Monroney sticker, just like it is for ice vehicles. Everyone focuses on the EPA range number as a way to capture the combined effect of efficiency and capacity and compare them between vehicles. The units are a bit idiotic (MPGe), but readily convertible to Wh/mi.

If you're towing, especially if your load has terrible aerodynamics, you might get where you're going faster by driving a bit slower. 75mph while towing sounds crazy to me, but that's probably just because all the west coast states have lower towing speed limits (generally 55 or 60mph) and the utility trailer we tow says its not meant to be taken above 60mph.

 

[PoorPilot]

A 50% loss is pretty extreme for "normal highway driving". Maybe if you're flooring it to pass people and running the A/C at 62 when it's 100 outside, then you MIGHT see that kind of drop, but I've never experienced that drastic of a reduction in the 3+ years I've owned my X while living and driving in the South.

Devil's advocate- not everyone wants to travel long distances with their EV. I really enjoy taking my X on road trips, but I have friends that bought an EV simply because their tired of gas price fluctuation and maintenance costs. All they wanted was an around town vehicle, so their happy with currently stated EPA numbers, because they don't need to worry about driving 3+ hours anywhere.

 

[inkedsphynx]

If my experience with range on my Tesla Model 3 LR is any indication, you won't be towing long distances with the R1S or R1T even with Max battery. My Tesla states 352 mile range, but if you actually go on the highway at highway speeds (75 in Florida), the max I can get is about 180 miles (I do have aftermarket Vossen Wheels). I expect a similar drop off in range with the Rivian's, possibly even worse considering they are less aerodynamic than the Tesla. Add in a trailer and I bet the range while towing even 5K is less than 150 miles. My gas 1500 Ram Limited gets half the mileage towing that it does normally (which is horrendous as it is) and my diesel 3500 Ram gets about a third worse mileage while towing (usually a heavy 14k+ load).

I don't understand why EV companies aren't required to post expected Highway Range just like gas cars post city and highway mpg. Who cares how many miles you can drive in the city at 45mph??? You can charge it at home to full every day if you want. You only care about range when traveling...usually on the highway!! I think it will be a few years until EV's are advertising 600+ mile ranges before any have an actual useful range towing a load. I have a reservation for both the R1S and R1T, but do not plan on keeping both at the same time anymore due to this range issue. I plan on getting the Launch Edition SUV first and then waiting for the Max Battery on the R1T. We'll see which one I sell based on how all this shakes out in the real world.

Rivian has been very clear that towing up to max towing capacity will reduce range up to 50%. I think if they were expecting less efficiency than that, they'd have hedged their bets even farther.

Towing at 75mph? That's your problem. Every mph you go up at those speeds is an even bigger increase to your drag coefficient. Try reducing your speed to 60mph and watch how much more range you get. I bet it's not insignificant.

 

[StillCrazy]

Rivian has been very clear that towing up to max towing capacity will reduce range up to 50%. I think if they were expecting less efficiency than that, they'd have hedged their bets even farther.

Towing at 75mph? That's your problem. Every mph you go up at those speeds is an even bigger increase to your drag coefficient. Try reducing your speed to 60mph and watch how much more range you get. I bet it's not insignificant.

Towing at 60mph on a Florida highway with traffic going 75-85mph is asking for an accident. Yes, going slower certainly improves mileage and range. Towing at 45mph is probably best of all, but is that practical, no. The point is that the "Range" you are referencing is a mythical number. The actual highway "Range" not towing anything is likely less than 180 miles. So now add a trailer to that and see what happens.

 

[inkedsphynx]

Towing at 60mph on a Florida highway with traffic going 75-85mph is asking for an accident. Yes, going slower certainly improves mileage and range. Towing at 45mph is probably best of all, but is that practical, no. The point is that the "Range" you are referencing is a mythical number. The actual highway "Range" not towing anything is likely less than 180 miles. So now add a trailer to that and see what happens.

Traffic where I live doesn't move any slower. Every day I get on a highway I see someone in the right lane doing 60-65 towing a trailer. I'm not sure what accident risk you think there is by doing so. I'm not referencing any range numbers so I'll assume that part of your reply was directed at someone else, despite quoting me.

If you really think the R1T or R1S are going to get 180 miles or less on a full charge on a highway then I'm confused why you're even on this forum. You clearly have no belief in what Rivian is saying nor any belief in every other EV owner who would easily dispute a 40% reduction for highway driving while not towing.

 

[Yossarian]

If my experience with range on my Tesla Model 3 LR is any indication, you won't be towing long distances with the R1S or R1T even with Max battery. My Tesla states 352 mile range, but if you actually go on the highway at highway speeds (75 in Florida), the max I can get is about 180 miles (I do have aftermarket Vossen Wheels). I expect a similar drop off in range with the Rivian's, possibly even worse considering they are less aerodynamic than the Tesla. Add in a trailer and I bet the range while towing even 5K is less than 150 miles. . .

I don't understand why EV companies aren't required to post expected Highway Range just like gas cars post city and highway mpg. Who cares how many miles you can drive in the city at 45mph??? You can charge it at home to full every day if you want. You only care about range when traveling...usually on the highway!! I think it will be a few years until EV's are advertising 600+ mile ranges before any have an actual useful range towing a load. I have a reservation for both the R1S and R1T, but do not plan on keeping both at the same time anymore due to this range issue. I plan on getting the Launch Edition SUV first and then waiting for the Max Battery on the R1T. We'll see which one I sell based on how all this shakes out in the real world.

Yikes - I hope this isn't the case with the Rivian. I'm far enough down in the pre-order list that it's likely there will be some real-world data available before I need to pull the trigger. I actually don't do a lot of driving around town and the Rivian was planned to be used as marketed: as an adventure vehicle. Hopefully when the data is available it supports an effective range while towing a small trailer in the neighborhood of at least 200-225 miles.

In my case, I will be doing longer trips, some of which would be to more remote areas and during the warmer months, would include my [email protected] camper. If it turns out that Rivian's definition of adventure vehicle doesn't support that kind of use and requires stopping to charge every couple of hours, there's no choice but to wait for the next generation of EVs. With my current vehicle closing in on 15 years however, that means throwing in the towel and getting another ICE SUV. I hope that's not the case however.

 

[StillCrazy]

Also, i

Traffic where I live doesn't move any slower. Every day I get on a highway I see someone in the right lane doing 60-65 towing a trailer. I'm not sure what accident risk you think there is by doing so. I'm not referencing any range numbers so I'll assume that part of your reply was directed at someone else, despite quoting me.

If you really think the R1T or R1S are going to get 180 miles or less on a full charge on a highway then I'm confused why you're even on this forum. You clearly have no belief in what Rivian is saying nor any belief in every other EV owner who would easily dispute a 40% reduction for highway driving while not towing.

I'm on this forum because I too believed in EV's and Rivian in particular. Put two pre-orders in and wanted to go full EV. However, because they were delayed (originally supposed to be 4th Quarter 2020 delivery) I had to get another gap vehicle for my wife in the meantime. So I ordered a Tesla Model 3 LR and now have experienced the reality of owning an EV. I could care less if you believe me, but I paid $54k for the LR Model 3 so my wife could drive to Sarasota and back on one charge (we live in Naples) and the fact is, she can't. That's real world highway driving. I even tried to put in on cruise at 70mph (speed limit) for the whole trip up and by the time I got off the highway (101 miles), the range estimator had me at -5% battery life to return to home.

I never said I tow at 75mph either, I was talking about driving the Model 3. I try to tow at the speed limit when possible. One boat and trailer is 8k pounds, the other 18k so no matter what, I won't be towing the larger one with a Rivian.

I absolutely believe in EV's for in-town and City driving. The Model 3 we have is perfect for this and gets much closer to the advertised range in town. My gripe is the highway range. Because of this I do not plan on having two EV's at the same time anymore. The R1S should fit nicely as an in-town family SUV, but I think it will be a while until it is actually convenient to take trips with (build up charging infrastructure).

 

[inkedsphynx]

So you're saying your rated 353miles of range on your Model 3 LR can't drive you 101 (I get 117 miles using google maps) miles on the highway, meaning that your range is reduced to below 33% on the highway? You think this is intended behavior? Have you had your vehicle checked out?

I have a really hard time believing that highway ranges could be 33% without towing without the thousands and thousands of Tesla owners suing the pants off Tesla for misleading information or advertising. Look at the settlement over charging throttling speeds.

I'm not saying I don't believe you and your situation. I am saying I don't believe that's true for the vast majority of EV buyers, otherwise it would be a well-known fact by now. There's hundreds of thousands of these things on the road at this point.

Can anyone else here corroborate a 66% reduction in range when driving on the highway in any EV? I'd love to know that.

 

[inkedsphynx]

Tesla Model 3 Highway Range Test At A Constant 70 MPH

We drive a 2019 Tesla Model 3 dual motor, long-range at a constant 70 mph to conduce a highway range test and see just how far the Model 3 will go.

insideevs.com

 

[SANZCO2]

Also, i


I'm on this forum because I too believed in EV's and Rivian in particular. Put two pre-orders in and wanted to go full EV. However, because they were delayed (originally supposed to be 4th Quarter 2020 delivery) I had to get another gap vehicle for my wife in the meantime. So I ordered a Tesla Model 3 LR and now have experienced the reality of owning an EV. I could care less if you believe me, but I paid $54k for the LR Model 3 so my wife could drive to Sarasota and back on one charge (we live in Naples) and the fact is, she can't. That's real world highway driving. I even tried to put in on cruise at 70mph (speed limit) for the whole trip up and by the time I got off the highway (101 miles), the range estimator had me at -5% battery life to return to home.

I never said I tow at 75mph either, I was talking about driving the Model 3. I try to tow at the speed limit when possible. One boat and trailer is 8k pounds, the other 18k so no matter what, I won't be towing the larger one with a Rivian.

I absolutely believe in EV's for in-town and City driving. The Model 3 we have is perfect for this and gets much closer to the advertised range in town. My gripe is the highway range. Because of this I do not plan on having two EV's at the same time anymore. The R1S should fit nicely as an in-town family SUV, but I think it will be a while until it is actually convenient to take trips with (build up charging infrastructure).

Sounds like you have an issue with your vehicle. I would have Tesla check it out.

I have a Model S, frequently use it to drive to the desert, 120 miles 1 way door to door. I can consistently leave my house with 200 miles of range listed and drive the 120 miles with 50 miles left. With no traffic I can do the ride in hour and 35 minutes. So close to 80mph average, I get 120 miles on a projected 150 miles.

 

[StillCrazy]

So you're saying your rated 353miles of range on your Model 3 LR can't drive you 101 (I get 117 miles using google maps) miles on the highway, meaning that your range is reduced to below 33% on the highway? You think this is intended behavior? Have you had your vehicle checked out?

I have a really hard time believing that highway ranges could be 33% without towing without the thousands and thousands of Tesla owners suing the pants off Tesla for misleading information or advertising. Look at the settlement over charging throttling speeds.

I'm not saying I don't believe you and your situation. I am saying I don't believe that's true for the vast majority of EV buyers, otherwise it would be a well-known fact by now. There's hundreds of thousands of these things on the road at this point.

Can anyone else here corroborate a 66% reduction in range when driving on the highway in any EV? I'd love to know that.

No, I'm saying that I can't drive from my house, up the highway 112 miles total (from maps) and return without charging. So I can't go 224 miles. Like I said, I do have aftermarket wheels, but wouldn't think they would affect range that drastically.

 

[inkedsphynx]

That still seems like far more reduction than you should get for a fairly aerodynamic car. I'm still leaning towards there's something wrong with your Model 3 as opposed to all Model 3s can only get 60% of their range on a highway. That said, I don't own a Tesla nor have I ever even sat in a Model 3, so I'm hardly an expert.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Time will tell what the range really is for Rivian.

Given recent tests, however, it seems Tesla grossly over-states their range, while most other manufacturers are more realistic -- and some are pessimistic.

I wouldn't assume just because Tesla lies about range that Rivian will. In fact, there's a lot of things Tesla lies about or at least exadgerates... It's kind of their M.O.

 

[StillCrazy]

Time will tell what the range really is for Rivian.

Given recent tests, however, it seems Tesla grossly over-states their range, while most other manufacturers are more realistic -- and some are pessimistic.

I wouldn't assume just because Tesla lies about range that Rivian will. In fact, there's a lot of things Tesla lies about or at least exadgerates... It's kind of their M.O.

Yeah I certainly hope that Rivian is more realistic. Other than the range, the driving characteristics and non-reliance on gas stations is awesome for the Tesla.