[JNC007]

Has anyone seen or heard anything about the stereo/infotainment setup? Specifically interaction with Apple or Android products? Mapping, music, podcasts...etc.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

AFAIK, they're using mapbox as their underlying map/navigation layer. Some frame grabs from videos seem to confirm that Spotify will be supported for music streaming.

I'm not aware of any other juicy tidbits. There are a LOT of people disappointed that CarPlay/AA are not being included, and many of us -- myself included -- are anxiously awaiting information on how well Rivian will integrate with our chosen ecosystem.

For me, personally, if Rivian doesn't provide first-class SMS integration (I think they will) and first-class Apple Music integration (this is where I think they may disappoint me) then I will seriously consider letting my reservation go and I'll use my GMC Hummer EV reservation, instead. Simple Bluetooth audio streaming is NOT sufficient for me. I need quality integration where I can actually interact with the music service and choose playlists, use voice controls to play a specific song/album/artist, see album art, and it needs to feel responsive.

 

[MilesK]

Has anyone seen or heard anything about the stereo/infotainment setup? Specifically interaction with Apple or Android products? Mapping, music, podcasts...etc.

Aside from who will be providing the sound system (Meridian) It's been tight lipped about how Rivian's infotainment screen will be able to connect with phones. If they won't have Apple CarPlay or Android Auto, they and/or Amazon need to have something to blow people away.

 

[JNC007]

I get their need to do everything in house; they want control. However, the Iphone/Android ecosystems are kind of a universal standard at this point. To have something that now needs to be updated on their side and then updated on the apple/Android side your sort of setting the user up for failure. Or making them buy another product, excluding a product. Either way at the end of the day its failure.

 

[eHauler]

I get their need to do everything in house; they want control. However, the Iphone/Android ecosystems are kind of a universal standard at this point. To have something that now needs to be updated on their side and then updated on the apple/Android side your sort of setting the user up for failure. Or making them buy another product, excluding a product. Either way at the end of the day its failure.

This is what @JRettinger found out.

No Apple CarPlay or Android Auto

I had seen this speculated but never confirmed, so I emailed Rivian directly to ask if they would be supporting one or both of these. TLDR: Nope, they won't. Their answer is below, and it's definitely disappointing, "Thanks for reaching out! Our Adventure package comes standard with Rivian...

www.rivianownersforum.com

I had seen this speculated but never confirmed, so I emailed Rivian directly to ask if they would be supporting one or both of these. TLDR: Nope, they won't. Their answer is below, and it's definitely disappointing,

"Thanks for reaching out! Our Adventure package comes standard with Rivian Elevation 360° featuring Alexa integration.

We believe to create a fully immersive audio experience for our community, an integrated platform optimized for Rivian was best. So, we will not be offering Apple Carplay or Android Auto.

Some key benefits of Rivian Elevation 360° audio include speakers that are positioned at precise locations throughout the cabin – including four titanium dome speakers overhead – that creates a truly immersive experience. And you can take that experience anywhere you’d like with the removable Bluetooth speaker located in the center console.

We look forward to releasing more information about our infotainment systems as we move closer to production!

If you have any other questions, please don’t hesitate to reach out.

See you on the road soon,"

 

[dc661]

Wow - this is really disappointing to hear. Really surprised they are not including Apple Carplay. I get wanting to create their own integrated solution but at least provide it as an OPTION.

 

[Wildabeest]

Wow - this is really disappointing to hear. Really surprised they are not including Apple Carplay. I get wanting to create their own integrated solution but at least provide it as an OPTION.

I think many of us agree. Having CarPlay and Android Auto apps as part of the Infotainment system would be the best of both worlds. Use Rivian main system for things it does well, and open AA or CP app when we want to access and control other apps residing on our phones.

 

[inkedsphynx]

All I think about is the world where my phone's app gets compromised, I integrate that to my vehicle, and now some malicious actor has control of my vehicle because some third party app didn't give a rip about their security controls. I'll let one of you be the guinea pig for that. To be fair, Rivian itself could be vulnerable to the same issue - compromised code pushed via OTA update and same result, but, the fewer risk surfaces you have, the less likely that is to occur. We all have different risk tolerance 🤷

 

[RITVT]

Wow - And they dodged the entire question by switching subjects to the speakers in the car? I don't think they understand how CarPlay or Android auto even work. Lack of support for this is just mind numbing, but I will be the first to admit that it became an INSTANT concern for me when the Amazon deal was announced. I wouldn't be surprised if it is locked into a broader agreement between Rivian and Amazon somehow. For Android users, I don't think there is as much to worry about (at least until you see the level of integration at the head-unit and how Alexa will work, but still TBD). For Apple customers, this feels like a pure lock-out. There isn't any technological reason why a Rivian "tile" in the infotainment window can't surface CarPlay and allow a user hands-free access to Siri and all your iPhone apps in Carplay (Waze, Spotify, Podcasts, etc) via the Rivian in-vehicle systems (and leverage all those wonderful speakers they were talking about too!)

 

[inkedsphynx]

They designed, built, and produces a brand new never before created electric truck. I guarantee you they understand how CarPlay and Android Auto work :laugh:

There's plenty of technological reasons why they might not want a 'tile' for CarPlay or Android Auto in their ecosystem. There may not be any limitations preventing it, but that is not the same as reasons

 

[RITVT]

There's plenty of technological reasons why they might not want a 'tile' for CarPlay or Android Auto in their ecosystem.

Sarcasm, I was using sarcasm, I'm sure they did their market research and conducted A/B tests within control groups for prospective buyers. Not sure of the technological reasons.

 

[inkedsphynx]

Hate quoting myself, but...

All I think about is the world where my phone's app gets compromised, I integrate that to my vehicle, and now some malicious actor has control of my vehicle because some third party app didn't give a rip about their security controls. I'll let one of you be the guinea pig for that. To be fair, Rivian itself could be vulnerable to the same issue - compromised code pushed via OTA update and same result, but, the fewer risk surfaces you have, the less likely that is to occur. We all have different risk tolerance 🤷

Perhaps one of the reasons they selected was security of their platform.

 

[RITVT]

Zero concerns with that, but to each their own. I'm not so important that foreign actors need to control my vehicle and remotely drive me off a cliff. I wish. (again sarcasm). if I had that concern, I wouldn't have made an online deposit for a Rivian (or use a smartphone for anything).

 

[timesinks]

Not sure what security consideration there would be with implementing CarPlay. The phone sends a video stream and the car sends x,y of the user inputs. All the apps are completely running on the phone. The phone's data is only accessible to the car insofar as it's displayed in the video stream. The interface is well-defined and not meant for data sharing.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Not sure what security consideration there would be with implementing CarPlay. The phone sends a video stream and the car sends x,y of the user inputs. All the apps are completely running on the phone. The phone's data is only accessible to the car insofar as it's displayed in the video stream. The interface is well-defined and not meant for data sharing.

Yep. CarPlay is really just one or two H.264 video streams, a few audio streams (music and voice commands) as well as some API calls to pass along user input. The phone doesn't actually execute any "code" on the car systems.

If a phone were infected, the worst it could do is prevent CarPlay from working, or display some naughty pictures on the display while the phone is connected to CarPlay. Disconnecting the phone would leave the car unaffected. Never would the phone gain control of vehicle safety/driving functions. It's simply not possible.

 

[inkedsphynx]

Do you work in information security and/or do you have any experience with application development and security? I do on both fronts. Even what you described (and I haven't done enough research into either AA or CP to know if you're even close to accurate) gives me multiple paths to attack. APIs have vulnerabilities all. the. time. Those video streams and audio streams require a connection. A connection passes data. If the endpoint has a flaw, data could gets passed that you don't want. An injection attack against a poorly coded API means the Rivian OS just executed some arbitrary code for me. Maybe that code just printed out what you named your car. Maybe that code bricked your electronics. Could be either of those and damn near anything else that the OS has access to.

That's not even counting zero days in the Rivian OS (which there will be if it has any level of complexity at all). I'm sure AA, CP, and Rivian all have infosec teams working to keep the risks to a minimum. I'm also sure there are risks, because there are always risks.

Check out OWASP Top Ten Web Application Security Risks | OWASP - there's a great primer to get started with understanding the types of attacks that can be leveraged against a web application (which is what the Rivian OS is, in essence).

 

[RITVT]

With this type of logic, you should def NOT be using Bluetooth

 

[timesinks]

I'm not a security engineer by training, but I am a CS grad who does network engineering and architecture in big tech. These concepts are directly affect my day to day.

Sure, if there is a communication protocol, there is a potential vector for overruns and the like. But CarPlay and AA were designed at the protocol level to minimize the attack surface by not directly exchanging the data and limiting the types of data that are processed from the other device (car or phone).

It's the same principle behind why higher value applications are often not directly accessible over the network but instead limited to access via RDP. Only having the video stream in one direction and the touch/tap/click stream in the other (plus some audio in both) dramatically reduces the opportunities to screw with each other.

 

[inkedsphynx]

You realize RDP is like the least secure protocol ever? 😆 I joke, but seriously, RDP is constantly being exploited and there are constantly new RDP vulnerabilities being reported and patched. It's not 'screwing with each other' that I'd be worried about either. If someone wants to hack Rivian via an OTA update and use that to brick my phone, sure, go right ahead. I don't keep anything important on it anyway. More concerned with the potential to screw with the vehicle I'm driving at high speeds.

My point was never that AA/CP integration makes the Rivian infotainment system immediately compromised, just that it increases the risk surface and those who understand the potential for compromise can factor that into their own risk calculations. Lots of people in here trying to tell me there's zero risk when that's simply not true. Just trying to educate people 🤷

As for bluetooth @R1TVT - I basically never do. I can count the number of times I've used BT with my car on one hand.

 

[inkedsphynx]

Hell, the Rivian is a moving wifi hotspot. I'd love to hear you all try to tell me that's not a huge security risk.