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No sure why you would say that. Rivian has NOT sold 200,000 vehicles and the MSRP is below the $80,000 price point.
  • Zero-emission vans, SUVs, and trucks with MSRPs up to $80,000 qualify.
Per the new pricing, most Rivians are likely above $80k though the new two motor smaller battery versions might be under.

There's also a new income cap of $150k/$300k single/married.
 

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It’ll be interesting to see how they manage this as a point of sale rebate, because there’s no way to determine the income restriction at time of transaction.
That's exactly my thought. I can just imagine the confusion. I mean, the dealer isn't going to do your tax return to determine whether you qualify.
And then the angry people who will have to repay their $7500 because it turns out at tax time that they didn't qualify.

I don’t think the politicians in DC give a rat’s ass about Rivian. Or even Tesla to a large degree. This bill will be shaped by the companies with deep pockets and well-oiled lobbying machines such as the Big 3, Honda, etc. who know how to play the game in DC. Tesla and Rivian are mere infants at that game, as witnessed by their inability to get dealer franchise laws changed.
Ooof. I think you may be right there ...
 

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This actually is bad for Rivian.most of their high spec models doesn't qualify after the March price hike. For the R1S only explorer with dual, standard range, option for color, and explorer with dual and large pack (free color only) will qualify. Rivian is in a tough spot.they might need to drop prices by few thousand. For quad and large pack combo to qualify.
 

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Why would you not know if your purchase qualifies? Pretty simple. MSRP under $80k, income under $150k/$300k single/married.
People who are self-employed can have difficulty predicting what their income will be on a given year. Even employed people can be surprised by a year-end bonus or a promotion or salary hike and exceed the income cap after purchasing the vehicle.
 

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People who are self-employed can have difficulty predicting what their income will be on a given year. Even employed people can be surprised by a year-end bonus or a promotion or salary hike and exceed the income cap after purchasing the vehicle.
Exactly. And it's not like "let's ballpark this", it's more like "this has to be exact to the dollar".
 

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No one is forcing you to take the credit at the time of sale - you can always just wait and take the credit as usual when you file. This is the way other refundable credits have worked in the past.
 

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No one is forcing you to take the credit at the time of sale - you can always just wait and take the credit as usual when you file. This is the way other refundable credits have worked in the past.
That's assuming you're aware of the risk of having to repay it. I'd bet that many people would just take the discount at sale and prefer to be in denial until they find out they didn't actually qualify.
 

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I can solve everyone's problems here...If anyone makes more than $150,000 / year as a single or more than $300,000 / year married, I'll gladly take all your extra income. I do this out of the kindness of my own heart to help you all qualify for the tax credit. 😁
 

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how are you all taking a "discount at the sale"? That is not even an option buying it through Rivian. As far as I know, this "magical $7500" will only come in the form of a tax credit to be issued at the time the 2022 taxes are being prepared early next year. You all make it sound like there is a man on a corner handing out $7500 "bonus cash" checks.
 

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By Sean McLain

Electric-vehicle startup Rivian RIVN 0.06%▲ Automotive Inc. is warning that planned revisions to the EV tax credit would put the young car maker at a disadvantage to more-established competitors.

The proposed changes to the federal tax subsidy, which has been in place for years as a way to make EVs more affordable, are part of a broader legislative package deal between Sen. Joe Manchin (D., W.Va.) and Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) to cut carbon emissions and healthcare costs.

If it passes in its current form, the new legislation would extend the $7,500 federal tax credit for EVs but add new restrictions that Rivian said would make most of its vehicles ineligible for the incentive program.

Rivian, in a statement, said the legislation as currently drafted would pull the rug out from consumers considering a switch to EVs. The California-based startup is calling for a longer transition to the new incentive program.

The company, in particular, takes issue with a planned cap that would make any electric trucks, SUVs and vans selling for more than $80,000 ineligible for the federal subsidy. It also opposes the proposed income restrictions. Buyers with household incomes of $150,000 or higher—$300,000 for married couples—wouldn’t qualify for the credit on new EV purchases.

“The whole point of an incentive is to mainstream a new technology,” said Jim Chen, Rivian’s vice president of public policy. “With any technology you start with a higher price point.”
Rivian currently sells only pickup trucks and SUVs, two body styles that have exploded in popularity in recent years and tend to sell for higher prices than sedans and hatchbacks.

While both the Rivian R1T pickup truck and R1S SUV both start below $80,000, “it doesn’t take much to push our vehicles over the cap,” Mr. Chen said. Most of Rivian’s vehicles sell for above $80,000, he said.

Rival EV startup Fisker Inc. also criticized the new qualifying requirements, saying they would stifle widespread EV adoption and unfairly favor a few companies. The Los Angeles car company said Tuesday it is currently studying the bill and intends to work out ways for customers to take full advantage of the existing tax credits.

Under the current legislation electric vehicles are eligible for a federal tax credit of up to $7,500, but once a car company has sold 200,000 electrified vehicles, the credit begins to phase out and eventually lapses altogether.

The world’s largest car makers have been lobbying Congress for years to remove the 200,000-vehicle cap on qualifying vehicles.

Tesla Inc. TSLA 0.91%▲ and General Motors Co. GM 3.54%▲ have both hit the cap. Toyota Motor Corp. TM -1.06%▼ recently sold its 200,000th electric vehicle, which triggers a gradual phase out of the tax credit for buyers of its EVs, the company said. Other manufacturers are nearing the cap, including Ford Motor Co. F 2.92%▲ and Nissan Motor Co. NSANY -0.45%▼

The car makers argue that the tax incentives are essential for encouraging people to buy electric vehicles, which are usually more expensive than a comparable gas-powered car or truck.

The changes in the proposed climate bill lift the 200,000-vehicle threshold for car companies and introduce other measures for EVs to qualify for the credit, such as requiring at least half of the battery components used be manufactured or assembled in the U.S. That requirement rises gradually to 100% by the end of 2028. The legislation also mandates similar thresholds for batteries’ raw materials, such as cobalt, lithium and other materials.

Mr. Chen said that Rivian supported the Senate’s desire to extend the incentives, but said that restrictions on who can receive a tax credit were counterproductive when it came to new technologies like electric vehicles.

Rivian said it needed the tax credits to boost its growth and allow it to invest in increasing production at its plant in Normal, Ill., and continue to invest in a new factory in Georgia.

Rivian plans to produce a cheaper model, dubbed the R2, at the plant in Georgia starting in 2025, which could qualify under the new proposed federal tax credit.

If buyers of Rivian vehicles became ineligible for a credit, that would put it at a disadvantage to companies who had years to build their manufacturing capabilities. “We want the same opportunity Tesla and GM had to ramp up their electric-vehicle production,” Mr. Chen said.

Rivian is lobbying Congress to add a two-year transition period to the new tax-credit structure to allow it time to improve its production process and start selling the R2.
Autos Drive America, which represents major foreign auto makers including Toyota and Volkswagen AG, said it continues to review the EV provisions in the bill.

“We encourage Congress to steer clear of any policy that would constrain electric vehicle production, hinder consumer adoption, and make it more difficult to achieve our shared climate goals,” the group’s president, Jennifer Safavian, said in a statement.

GM said it is encouraged by the framework of the bill, but said some of the requirements would be challenging and couldn’t be achieved quickly, without specifying which ones.
 

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how are you all taking a "discount at the sale"? That is not even an option buying it through Rivian. As far as I know, this "magical $7500" will only come in the form of a tax credit to be issued at the time the 2022 taxes are being prepared early next year. You all make it sound like there is a man on a corner handing out $7500 "bonus cash" checks.
The proposed bill actually allows the buyer to “transfer” their tax credit to the dealer at the point of sale, thus allowing the dealer to reduce the amount paid at time of purchase. There’s a bunch of language that specifies how dealers need to register to participate and instructing IRS to issue regs and guidelines, p,us a bunch of other crap. Looks like a convoluted mess, and whether Rivian would choose to participate is anyone’s guess.

Here’s a link to the bill text. The “Transfer of Credit” language starts on Page 378, Line 6 and runs through page 382.
 
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People who are self-employed can have difficulty predicting what their income will be on a given year. Even employed people can be surprised by a year-end bonus or a promotion or salary hike and exceed the income cap after purchasing the vehicle.
Self employed have the easiest time controlling their income on the up side, defer billing, put income into tax free retirement accounts, increase business costs that affect income.

Issue for Rivian is that price is mostly more than $80k and I'd guess most buyers have taxable over $150k.
 

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Rivian is lobbying Congress to add a two-year transition period to the new tax-credit structure to allow it time to improve its production process and start selling the R2.
So GM, Ford and Tesla would go two years before requalifying for EV rebates? Putting US mfgs at disadvantage vs. world competition to benefit Rivian? Hope we don't go that route and likely won't as part of the compromise to revive the rebate was to make EV's accessible to working people, $35 average new car price, $45k median US income.,

Rivian put itself in high end niche market which is less affected by need for the EV tax credit.
 

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So GM, Ford and Tesla would go two years before requalifying for EV rebates? Putting US mfgs at disadvantage vs. world competition to benefit Rivian? Hope we don't go that route and likely won't as part of the compromise to revive the rebate was to make EV's accessible to working people, $35 average new car price, $45k median US income.,

Rivian put itself in high end niche market which is less affected by need for the EV tax credit.
Rivian think they more pull than the Big 3 and TSLA combined? Lol. Rivian would of been fine if they didn't price hike back in March. Biggest problem with affordable EV is there are none. Even if there is, none direct pricing Auto dealer will add that 7500 credit to their dealer markup.
 

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Rivian think they more pull than the Big 3 and TSLA combined?
No...just voicing their financial interests. Ironically, Rivian is probably the poster child for those who push to impose the extra taxes on EV's a very expensive vehicle, built for "off roading" vs. driving to work and school. The rich guy in the expensive car getting a tax break while not paying a "road" tax is the image that powers the EV taxes and opponents of EV credits and tax breaks.

Answer to Rivian is to build some models under $80k.

Overall restoring and expanding the EV tax credit with the $80k cost/$150k income is a good thing and a welcome surprise after everyone thought it was dead.
 

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Self employed have the easiest time controlling their income on the up side, defer billing, put income into tax free retirement accounts, increase business costs that affect income.

Issue for Rivian is that price is mostly more than $80k and I'd guess most buyers have taxable over $150k.
True but it depends on how far over the income cap you are.
 

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Answer to Rivian is to build some models under $80k.
That's what they're trying to do, but in order to scale to support lower-cost vehicles, new manufacturers typically have to sell expensive vehicles first. Look at Tesla and Lucid as modern examples. Which is why Rivian apparently isn't lobbying against the bill entirely but is asking for a delayed phase-in so that they can get closer to R2 roll-out.
 
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