Rivian Forum – Rivian R1T & R1S News, Pricing & Order... banner
21 - 40 of 67 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Totally get how you feel. It’s new and a bit unknown and scary.

I’ve had a Tesla for 10years (Dec 2012) and would never go back.

These vehicles have WAY less issues than gasoline vehicles. After a few early issues Tesla fixed for me (this rivian is new as well and it will happen) I’ve rarely had to take it in. No oil changes, no brakes, nothing. The last time I saw Tesla was to replace my tires TPMS sensors!

The waiting to charge is an issue. But how often will you really have the issue with such a large battery.
And when and if you DO have to stop you don’t charge to full. EVs charge very quickly when empty, it’s the topping off that takes a long time. I do a run often in my Tesla and stop at a gas station to bathroom and grab a coffee. In the 5-10 I charge 80 miles.
And if you really want to pull that all night driver then just rent a car for the rare time that may happen. I went to Yosemite once and did this. Kids ate in the rental instead of my car anyway.

I can truly say that after a little time you won’t care about the charging issue.

In my mind the pros way outweigh the cons. I agree with the guy who said to keep the car for a few months and make the decision.

I was feeling the same as you 10 years ago when I got my Model S. It was expensive, new and unproven, and took some getting used to. I truly think it’s worth the learning curve.

Listen when so many of us are saying we’d never go back to an ICE now.

Enjoy your truck 🛻 👍
Excellent response! Thank you. The rental thing for the long drives was exactly what I was thinking- I've actually done it when I had my 4runner, just for the better gas mileage and wear and tear.

I'm going to give it another month or two, at least.

This is an awesome truck, bye the way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Hey @DustyBottoms, the R1T is my first EV as well. Like you, I don't do very many drives over 200 miles. Honestly, I feel the same way you do about the prospect of charging on the road on a longer trip. I think it's because I have never used a charger other than the one at my house. Before I go on my first road trip with the R1T I'm going to use some of the local area chargers, even though I don't have to, just to get familiar with them. I, too, like to get where I'm going. But, a 20-30 minute stop is a small price to pay for driving the R1T. I drove my 2011 Tacoma the other day, after driving the R1T for a few months, and couldn't believe how loud, rough, and gutless it was.

Like others have said, keep the R1T for a while. Try out some chargers in your area, before a road trip, to get comfortable with them. And, if all else fails, I'll let you drive my Tacoma to solidify your confidence in your R1T.
Another great response. Thank you! I have yet to charge my car outside of my garage- you're right, I should test out the public charging stations. And you are also spot on with the ride... the r1t makes a tacoma seem like a bull ride.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #24 · (Edited)
If you are charging at home and not road tripping very often you will probably find that the time you save by not going to a gas station once a week (or however often you do) more than offsets the additional time on infrequent road trips. I find that charging during a road trip isn't a big deal but I always combine bathroom/coffee buying with charging and in that 10-15 minutes the car is usually already charged enough or close enough to move on. Also if you are driving 360 miles a day and averaging 60 mph (numbers chosen for easier math) you will spend 6 hours driving and, provided charging works as designed or close to it, you will need to charge for 15-30 minutes provided you have a place to plug into on arrival and don't mind driving down to around 10% battery. Is an extra 15-30 minutes charging really a big deal on a 6 hour drive? I take 350 mile trips or so every few months in a older Model S 70D which is a much slower charger than an R1T and has a much lower range, it isn't a problem for me. All that being said, if it doesn't work for you it doesn't work for you but I would never go back to ICE, I don't miss oil changes, coolant changes, replacing brakes, transmission fluid change, etc.
Tom- good point! I haven't factored that in and I could always think of the hours I've saved when I'm waiting the 45 minutes to charge up on a long road trip. I'm guessing that I've already saved about 30 minutes in one month of driving this.

And, for everyone..... To be upfront, I didn't buy an EV for the environmental reasons- it's purely for convenience/sanity issues I have. I'd like to focus on those 😜

I do appreciate everyone's input. There are a lot of things brought forth that I haven't considered. 👍

And, PSS- This is a really cool truck!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
185 Posts
Tom- good point! I haven't factored that in and I could always think of the hours I've saved when I'm waiting the 45 minutes to charge up on a long road trip. I'm guessing that I've already saved about 30 minutes in one month of driving this.

And, for everyone..... To be upfront, I didn't buy an EV for the environmental reasons- it's purely for convenience/sanity issues I have. I'd like to focus on those 😜

I do appreciate everyone's input. There are a lot of things brought forth that I haven't considered. 👍

And, PSS- This is a really cool truck!!
I completely agree that the R1T is a cool truck! And even though you don’t care about the environment it has you covered. A win win!! It hides self centeredness!! Being an EV it implies that you care some what of others.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
I've had my R1T for almost a month, and I'm not sure if I'm going to keep it. I was just wondering if anyone else was a first time EV owner and gave it up, or if it took a little longer for it to grow on them...?

It's my first EV, and nicest vehicle that I have ever owned. It drives great, no problems at all with it, and it is a lot less expensive to operate than my 2021 4Runner was. The main reason for getting it was for having the convenience of always having a full "tank" every morning. I have only driven more than 200 miles at one time in my 4runner once- a 400 mile trip. Besides local driving, I have to drive about 130 miles round trip once a week. Considering my driving habits, the Rivian seemed very practical for me. I wanted to get a truck, and was thinking about trading my 4runner for a Tacoma or Colorado when I got the call for my R1T delivery date about a year before I was expecting it. I was hesitant to take delivery, but I pulled the trigger.

The main sticking point for me is if I will ever need to charge it on the road- No more pulling over and spending 5 minutes pumping gas for another 350 miles. That makes me nervous. And the fact that this is a REALLY nice truck. It seems like a lot could go wrong with it, considering everything is controlled electronically, through the main screen (including the vents, which I am not a fan of). There's a part of me that just wants a used Tacoma and not have to worry about door dings, scratches, how to valet the thing (I still haven't looked into that!), or gadgets to break.

Anyway, I thought I'd throw out my feelings with it to see if anyone else didn't immediately take to the EV lifestyle, and to get any thoughts on even how to sell it, if I could sell it (and who would get the federal EV credit if I sold it?).

I'm going to give it another month to see what happens. Thanks for any thoughts for a first time EV owner!
I'm new to Ev's but not luxury vehicles, so I feel like the second half of your post I can address. The key to driving something as nice/expensive as a Rivian is to plan on keeping it until you have about a year left on the warranty and trading it in. The math on the depreciation hit every 3 or so years works out to actually cheaper than keeping it for 10 years until it dies and buying a new one. Most people in the luxury car segment turn them every couple years.

The other thing to keep in mind is an EV is actually more simplistic mechanically than an ICE car so while the computer stuff seems overwhelming overall an EV's major mechanical stuff is actually more reliable than ICE as a rule. As far as the door dings and scratches you'll get used to this level of vehicle and that will become less of a problem. I'm pretty particular with my vehicles but you do relax on minor damage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
I'm not sure about saving the "earth" by slapping down 100K for a pickup. When you get China, India, Iran, Germany, Saudi Arabia, and Russia on board, which isn't going to happen in our lifetime, you may be getting somewhere. Otherwise, I will sweat that nuclear power plant and two more in Ukraine. Planes, Semi-Trucks, and Farming (so we eat) have a very long way to go with EVs, and remember, you still have to produce energy. Sun and wind are not going to cut it. Europe got solid regulations with it, and they are buying their power and coal from Russia. Wait until this winter and watch Russia pull in the money. Where do those dollars go? We have given $15 Billion to Ukraine and Europe, with Germany over 50%, buying their power from Russia.
Don't forget all those nasty emissions from bombs also. Hey, it's a nice truck, and I am on the list, but preaching to people about saving the earth, you need to travel and not the places in your vacation brochures. The United States controlling the world's industries and wars (not going to happen). We can't even feed everyone yet. Also, India is burning under the people's feet. 1.3 Billion people (China also 1.3 billion). These are colossal coal mines; families must mop their floors four to five times a day to be cool enough to walk on them. Passing the gas station, not paying $5.00 a gallon, innovation, low maintenance etc., are all excellent reasons if you have $50K plus to buy an EV.
  • China, with more than 10,065 million tons of CO2 released.
  • United States, with 5,416 million tons of CO2
  • India, with 2,654 million tons of CO2
  • Russia, with 1,711 million tons of CO2
  • Japan, 1,162 million tons of CO2
  • Germany, 759 million tons of CO2
  • Iran, 720 million tons of CO2
  • South Korea, 659 million tons of CO2
  • Saudi Arabia, 621 million tons of CO2
  • Indonesia, 615 million tons of CO2

As the US and Europe go down, do we leave ourselves vulnerable to economic collapse as China, Russia, and other nations ration our power needs?

That's my rant; I must return to the NASCAR races.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
I'm not sure about saving the "earth" by slapping down 100K for a pickup. When you get China, India, Iran, Germany, Saudi Arabia, and Russia on board, which isn't going to happen in our lifetime, you may be getting somewhere. Otherwise, I will sweat that nuclear power plant and two more in Ukraine. Planes, Semi-Trucks, and Farming (so we eat) have a very long way to go with EVs, and remember, you still have to produce energy. Sun and wind are not going to cut it. Europe got solid regulations with it, and they are buying their power and coal from Russia. Wait until this winter and watch Russia pull in the money. Where do those dollars go? We have given $15 Billion to Ukraine and Europe, with Germany over 50%, buying their power from Russia.
Don't forget all those nasty emissions from bombs also. Hey, it's a nice truck, and I am on the list, but preaching to people about saving the earth, you need to travel and not the places in your vacation brochures. The United States controlling the world's industries and wars (not going to happen). We can't even feed everyone yet. Also, India is burning under the people's feet. 1.3 Billion people (China also 1.3 billion). These are colossal coal mines; families must mop their floors four to five times a day to be cool enough to walk on them. Passing the gas station, not paying $5.00 a gallon, innovation, low maintenance etc., are all excellent reasons if you have $50K plus to buy an EV.
  • China, with more than 10,065 million tons of CO2 released.
  • United States, with 5,416 million tons of CO2
  • India, with 2,654 million tons of CO2
  • Russia, with 1,711 million tons of CO2
  • Japan, 1,162 million tons of CO2
  • Germany, 759 million tons of CO2
  • Iran, 720 million tons of CO2
  • South Korea, 659 million tons of CO2
  • Saudi Arabia, 621 million tons of CO2
  • Indonesia, 615 million tons of CO2

As the US and Europe go down, do we leave ourselves vulnerable to economic collapse as China, Russia, and other nations ration our power needs?

That's my rant; I must return to the NASCAR races.
I don’t disagree with your rant. Your points are valid. But the question then becomes, what are we supposed to do? Give up on this planet and assume it will be habitable at least long enough for us to live out our lives? I don’t claim to have the answers, I’m just not willing to give up. Maybe detaching from fossil fuels for daily transportation and putting up solar panels is only a drop in the ocean of reducing CO2 emissions. I think I’m ok with that. We have to start somewhere. I’m at a point in my life where I can afford to set an example by embracing some expensive green technologies. I don’t need a pat on the back and I’m certainly not fooling myself into thinking I’m saving the planet by buying an expensive truck. I hope enough people that can will do the same so that a generation from now all of these things will be mainstream and affordable throughout the world. I certainly hope so for our children’s sake.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
I'm not sure about saving the "earth" by slapping down 100K for a pickup. When you get China, India, Iran, Germany, Saudi Arabia, and Russia on board, which isn't going to happen in our lifetime, you may be getting somewhere. Otherwise, I will sweat that nuclear power plant and two more in Ukraine. Planes, Semi-Trucks, and Farming (so we eat) have a very long way to go with EVs, and remember, you still have to produce energy. Sun and wind are not going to cut it. Europe got solid regulations with it, and they are buying their power and coal from Russia. Wait until this winter and watch Russia pull in the money. Where do those dollars go? We have given $15 Billion to Ukraine and Europe, with Germany over 50%, buying their power from Russia.
Don't forget all those nasty emissions from bombs also. Hey, it's a nice truck, and I am on the list, but preaching to people about saving the earth, you need to travel and not the places in your vacation brochures. The United States controlling the world's industries and wars (not going to happen). We can't even feed everyone yet. Also, India is burning under the people's feet. 1.3 Billion people (China also 1.3 billion). These are colossal coal mines; families must mop their floors four to five times a day to be cool enough to walk on them. Passing the gas station, not paying $5.00 a gallon, innovation, low maintenance etc., are all excellent reasons if you have $50K plus to buy an EV.
  • China, with more than 10,065 million tons of CO2 released.
  • United States, with 5,416 million tons of CO2
  • India, with 2,654 million tons of CO2
  • Russia, with 1,711 million tons of CO2
  • Japan, 1,162 million tons of CO2
  • Germany, 759 million tons of CO2
  • Iran, 720 million tons of CO2
  • South Korea, 659 million tons of CO2
  • Saudi Arabia, 621 million tons of CO2
  • Indonesia, 615 million tons of CO2

As the US and Europe go down, do we leave ourselves vulnerable to economic collapse as China, Russia, and other nations ration our power needs?

That's my rant; I must return to the NASCAR races.
Just one tweak. China is already on board. (Germany is too)

Font Guitar accessory Technology Musical instrument accessory Audio equipment


All that EV sales does nothing though if the infrastructure and industrials keep spewing out to support the building and selling of these.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
I don’t disagree with your rant. Your points are valid. But the question then becomes, what are we supposed to do? Give up on this planet and assume it will be habitable at least long enough for us to live out our lives? I don’t claim to have the answers, I’m just not willing to give up. Maybe detaching from fossil fuels for daily transportation and putting up solar panels is only a drop in the ocean of reducing CO2 emissions. I think I’m ok with that. We have to start somewhere. I’m at a point in my life where I can afford to set an example by embracing some expensive green technologies. I don’t need a pat on the back and I’m certainly not fooling myself into thinking I’m saving the planet by buying an expensive truck. I hope enough people that can will do the same so that a generation from now all of these things will be mainstream and affordable throughout the world. I certainly hope so for our children’s sake.
I'll tell you what we can do, the stuff that actually matters. First we can admit that there is no real conclusive science on the level of "climate change" only loose correlations and not one single model can accurately predict or explain it. Second we can invest in nuclear power which is actual clean energy. I still think we need to make a move to EV's but for the technological aspect more than the environmental one. EV's represent a leap forward in technology that has widespread applications beyond just a car that runs on batteries. Changing transportation and energy storage is really the next leap forward for locomotion technology and the West can either innovate in this sphere or become technologically inferior to people that want to subjugate us such as China. Make no mistake they'd love nothing more than to conquer the Western world and it's our technology that keeps that from happening.

In my opinion the people such as yourself who are genuinely concerned about the climate should fix your messaging to appeal to the "other side". First realize that conservatives have been running environmental goals for longer than you leftists have, they just call it conservation. Things like Ducks unlimited and state DNR's funded largely with dollars from hunters have been protecting the environment since the 60's, long before climate change was a leftist buzzword. Also start being honest about exporting all our pollution to the third world to line politician's pockets. All these initiatives to "reduce" our carbon footprint are really about exporting jobs to other countries to make elites richer. Sure "our" footprint is smaller by doing that but some kids in India or Pakistan will be recycling batteries with their bare hands and getting cobalt poisoning while dumping residues into their ground water for 50 cents a day instead.

If anything we need to keep our polluting industries here at home where we have rules and regulations and can minimize the environmental impact of such things. You guys would reach a whole lot more people by admitting no one is willing to do what it takes to STOP pollution which would require giving up the modern world but instead we should be moving towards doing a little better but stop exporting our problems to the third world. There, you wanted to know what people like me think we should do and I told you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
I'll tell you what we can do, the stuff that actually matters. First we can admit that there is no real conclusive science on the level of "climate change" only loose correlations and not one single model can accurately predict or explain it. Second we can invest in nuclear power which is actual clean energy. I still think we need to make a move to EV's but for the technological aspect more than the environmental one. EV's represent a leap forward in technology that has widespread applications beyond just a car that runs on batteries. Changing transportation and energy storage is really the next leap forward for locomotion technology and the West can either innovate in this sphere or become technologically inferior to people that want to subjugate us such as China. Make no mistake they'd love nothing more than to conquer the Western world and it's our technology that keeps that from happening.

In my opinion the people such as yourself who are genuinely concerned about the climate should fix your messaging to appeal to the "other side". First realize that conservatives have been running environmental goals for longer than you leftists have, they just call it conservation. Things like Ducks unlimited and state DNR's funded largely with dollars from hunters have been protecting the environment since the 60's, long before climate change was a leftist buzzword. Also start being honest about exporting all our pollution to the third world to line politician's pockets. All these initiatives to "reduce" our carbon footprint are really about exporting jobs to other countries to make elites richer. Sure "our" footprint is smaller by doing that but some kids in India or Pakistan will be recycling batteries with their bare hands and getting cobalt poisoning while dumping residues into their ground water for 50 cents a day instead.

If anything we need to keep our polluting industries here at home where we have rules and regulations and can minimize the environmental impact of such things. You guys would reach a whole lot more people by admitting no one is willing to do what it takes to STOP pollution which would require giving up the modern world but instead we should be moving towards doing a little better but stop exporting our problems to the third world. There, you wanted to know what people like me think we should do and I told you.
A well thought out and well written opinion. As a “leftist” which I’m not, I actually agree with most of it. There are 2 problem: 1. Science is not political and global warming is being accelerated by humans. 2. All of your ideas for what we can do to protect the planet are not things that an individual can accomplish except for changing how you vote and unfortunately neither major political party supports your proposed agenda.

This thread has taken a very interesting turn and I propose we keep politics off of this forum and focus on our enthusiasm for Rivian.
 

·
Registered
15 MS 70D, Chevy Bolt, Yamaha T700
Joined
·
21 Posts
Tom- good point! I haven't factored that in and I could always think of the hours I've saved when I'm waiting the 45 minutes to charge up on a long road trip. I'm guessing that I've already saved about 30 minutes in one month of driving this.

And, for everyone..... To be upfront, I didn't buy an EV for the environmental reasons- it's purely for convenience/sanity issues I have. I'd like to focus on those 😜

I do appreciate everyone's input. There are a lot of things brought forth that I haven't considered. 👍

And, PSS- This is a really cool truck!!
I didn't go EV for environmental reasons either, I went because we hit some financial goals and I was going to buy "my" car. When I started looking at cars, I found that EVs had become more realistic and many aspects of their performance can't be duplicated by ICE vehicles. Performance combined with operating costs and lower maintenance is why we went EVs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
397 Posts
You guys would reach a whole lot more people by admitting no one is willing to do what it takes to STOP pollution which would require giving up the modern world but instead we should be moving towards doing a little better but stop exporting our problems to the third world. There, you wanted to know what people like me think we should do and I told you.
I laugh all the time on the Tesla forums when people talk about Elon saving the world by reducing carbon foot prints, while he flys all over the place on a private jet…

I’ve given to ducks unlimited for ~30 years.

Politically I’m fairly conservative and everyone I know that owns a Tesla is as well. I try and minimize my environmental impact. Being an avid outdoorsman my top priority over the last 10 years has trying to eliminate my use of single use plastic. Plastic is everywhere…. Over the last year I’ve harvested: salmon, halibut, duck, geese, and swan with plastics in their GI tract. I could count on one had the number of plastic bottles beverages I’ve purchased/used in the last 5-7 years and have almost eliminated zip locks.

For carbon footprint. ~7 years ago I switched to bike commuting and do so at least 80% of the time, I’m 10 miles away. It is a way to make sure I get ~60 min of exercise daily and only takes me ~20-30 min longer per day. Also I rarely buy commercial meat, yearly harvest: ~150-200 lbs of Salmon, ~100+ lbs of halibut and rock fish, ~100 lbs caribou, 50-100 lbs of goat and sheep, 50-100 lbs of upland bird and waterfowl. We have 5 freezers. Switched out home, cabin, and camper to solar. Don’t fly for vacations. For the Teslas I bought them for: performance, home charging, value, but environmental impact wasn’t something I kidded myself about.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
562 Posts
First we can admit that there is no real conclusive science on the level of "climate change" only loose correlations and not one single model can accurately predict or explain it.
Umm, no. The science is conclusive and compelling that human activity within the past 100 years or so has led to a drastic increase in atmospheric greenhouse gases, and that those gases directly contribute to the overall warming of the Earth through known mechanisms. You seem to be conflating this issue with the understanding of the natural climate cycles (ice ages etc.) whose mechanisms are poorly understood because they are a result of extremely complicated interactions between mathematically complex and chaotic systems. But we do have ample data for the level of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere over the past million or so years and the current period of man-made warming far exceeds the natural changes, in terms of the magnitude of the greenhouse gas concentration and the extremely short time period over which it has changed. Natural changes occur over tens of thousands of years, not over a few decades.

And BTW, Ducks Unlimited, which you cite as a paragon of "conservative" environmentalism, fully believes in climate change. See Climate Change and Waterfowl

The rest of your post is political name-calling that has no place in these forums. You start by attaching what you consider to be epithets to those you disagree with, then use those names to wrongly extrapolate and to inaccurately attribute other positions and beliefs to "them". I am a scientist. I am not a "leftist". Just because science contradicts some of your cherished social beliefs does not mean you can infer anything else about the political positions or social behavior of people who accept the science. This is a scientific issue not a political one (except to those who try to use the issue as a way to divide people).

Bottom line though is that we all have an obligation to do what we can. Buying an EV is part of that. No one has ever claimed EVs are the solution to all the world's problems, but we know that continuing down our present path is unsustainable, and buying an ICE vehicle when you could buy an EV instead (and not everyone can) is making the problem worse, not better. There is no excuse for continuing to contribute to the known problems, when it is possible for you to help improve things. And even less excuse for spending endless time trying to defend and justify the status quo of a petroleum based economy. It is not hypocritical at all to do what we can, even if we can't do everything. However is IS hypocritical to blame everyone else then refuse to contribute to the solution because by your logic you can't make a difference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
I've had my R1T for almost a month, and I'm not sure if I will keep it. I was just wondering if anyone else was a first time EV owner and gave it up, or if it took a little longer for it to grow on them...?

It's my first EV, and nicest vehicle that I have ever owned. It drives great, no problems at all with it, and it is a lot less expensive to operate than my 2021 4Runner was. The main reason for getting it was for having the convenience of always having a full "tank" every morning. I have only driven more than 200 miles at one time in my 4runner once- a 400 mile trip. Besides local driving, I have to drive about 130 miles round trip once a week. Considering my driving habits, the Rivian seemed very practical for me. I wanted to get a truck, and was thinking about trading my 4runner for a Tacoma or Colorado when I got the call for my R1T delivery date about a year before I was expecting it. I was hesitant to take delivery, but I pulled the trigger.

The main sticking point for me is if I will ever need to charge it on the road- No more pulling over and spending 5 minutes pumping gas for another 350 miles. That makes me nervous. And the fact that this is a REALLY nice truck. It seems like a lot could go wrong with it, considering everything is controlled electronically, through the main screen (including the vents, which I am not a fan of). There's a part of me that just wants a used Tacoma and not have to worry about door dings, scratches, how to valet the thing (I still haven't looked into that!), or gadgets to break.

Anyway, I thought I'd throw out my feelings with it to see if anyone else didn't immediately take to the EV lifestyle, and to get any thoughts on even how to sell it, if I could sell it (and who would get the federal EV credit if I sold it?).

I'm going to give it another month to see what happens. Thanks for any thoughts for a first time EV owner!
Not sure how old you are or if you have a loan on your truck, but I agree with you as far as driving a 4Runner and making payments over $450 a month for 5-6 years. The average car/truck payment is over $700 in the US now. Cars, Trucks, no matter who makes them, will depreciate. The time you insure a $100K pick-up, pay property taxes (depending on your state), and watch about $1000 plus a month to drive one of these things (if you are young or even in your early forties and starting out), it's not worth it. If I were in my thirties, I would have a used Toyota and Nissan with as few payments as possible. I put some of that cash in a 401K or a Roth IRA and let it grow for 20-30 years. I'm retired, but I avoided new cars all of my life. I would grab a used one with a few years of warranty left or a Certified Pre-Ownws and most times pay cash. Putting two daughters through college was on the wife and me; they have no student loans and are on their own with a good start. If you want to do something for your kids that you may or may not have, they will appreciate that much more than you driving an EV 20 years ago and losing $1500/month. Hell, I have a 2011 Navigator with 100K mile.s I bought used in 2013 for $37K and treated myself to a Porsche about four years ago, retiring early ( 2004 911 4S), but I paid cash at $35K. Only has 62K miles now. Both aren't worth $50K, and I, like you, still worry about someone bumping the door in. Insurance is cheap, personal property is next to nothing, and no payments. Hell, I could park far out and take an Uber to the store from the lot, and someone will still get a ding. I always have them fixed, though. The Rivian SUV isn't for me but for my wife. I am more interested in automated driving features and something a little smaller. Putting less than 10K a year, I don't care about the gas, but the truck will easily go 500 miles on the highway. If I would get one and flip it for a $20-$25K profit, my wife would say do it. I'd put more aside for my grandchildren in a 529 account and tax the tax deduction. They would not give a damn if Grandpa had an EV in 30 years. Done three tours over in the sandbox of hell on this earth, and I can tell you that the whole region will never stop pumping oil. The more we stop drilling (and feeling all good about ourselves), the higher they will sell us the same stuff, except US Crude is the purest and takes the least amount of refining in the world. In China and India, or over 6 billion people, about 80% can't even afford a car. They are going through their industrial phase, as we did 50-60 years ago. We ship container ships of used Hondas and Toyota's over there every week. Don't get too caught up in all the EV marketing, at least not to you, your families, or your just plain self-happiness. Best of Luck to you, and do what makes you feel good and comfortable daily. Best of success to you!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
Umm, no. The science is conclusive and compelling that human activity within the past 100 years or so has led to a drastic increase in atmospheric greenhouse gases, and that those gases directly contribute to the overall warming of the Earth through known mechanisms. You seem to be conflating this issue with the understanding of the natural climate cycles (ice ages etc.) whose mechanisms are poorly understood because they are a result of extremely complicated interactions between mathematically complex and chaotic systems. But we do have ample data for the level of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere over the past million or so years and the current period of man-made warming far exceeds the natural changes, in terms of the magnitude of the greenhouse gas concentration and the extremely short time period over which it has changed. Natural changes occur over tens of thousands of years, not over a few decades.

And BTW, Ducks Unlimited, which you cite as a paragon of "conservative" environmentalism, fully believes in climate change. See Climate Change and Waterfowl

The rest of your post is political name-calling that has no place in these forums. You start by attaching what you consider to be epithets to those you disagree with, then use those names to wrongly extrapolate and to inaccurately attribute other positions and beliefs to "them". I am a scientist. I am not a "leftist". Just because science contradicts some of your cherished social beliefs does not mean you can infer anything else about the political positions or social behavior of people who accept the science. This is a scientific issue not a political one (except to those who try to use the issue as a way to divide people).

Bottom line though is that we all have an obligation to do what we can. Buying an EV is part of that. No one has ever claimed EVs are the solution to all the world's problems, but we know that continuing down our present path is unsustainable, and buying an ICE vehicle when you could buy an EV instead (and not everyone can) is making the problem worse, not better. There is no excuse for continuing to contribute to the known problems, when it is possible for you to help improve things. And even less excuse for spending endless time trying to defend and justify the status quo of a petroleum based economy. It is not hypocritical at all to do what we can, even if we can't do everything. However is IS hypocritical to blame everyone else then refuse to contribute to the solution because by your logic you can't make a difference.
Do three tours for our country in the Sandbox of Hell on this earth and then tell me your EV will clean the air? What we don't pump (which is the cleanest non-refined crude on the rock), other countries will and ship it. Germany is buying over 50% of its oil from Russia. That goes for the war in Ukraine, where we just sent $15 Billion. Maybe we could have used that for safer schools? Ukraine is no saint. Tell me there isn't some smoke rising in the air every day from that money, smoke from tanks, missiles, bombs, and maybe nuclear catastrophe. Sweeden, bless their no sides' hearts, is buying oil and gas from Russia. $9.50 a gallon to fuel up there. The oil still comes out of the same rock, but US crude is highly refined, and our natural crude is way less polluting than Russia or the Middle East. We only stop buying this year from Russia. Germany and most of Europe are buying from Russia today! Tell me, where is your endpoint? When do Russia, India, and China stop using oil? They are only hitting their industrial phase now, the world doesn't revolve around the United States. China and India buy used Toyotas and Hondas by the container ship load weekly. But if they burn in some other country, will we stop them? They have over 3 billion people, and we have 350 Million; will you set our values on those nations? I've seen raw sewage pour into the ocean for over 20 years across the sandbox; that's how far they are behind. Get out and see the real world, not a beach for a week; your mind will change, and not everyone plays by our rules. No doubt global warming is happening; the question is, does just the United States and Europe think they are going to reverse trends? Tell me how to move militaries and protect lives. Tell me how we are going to fly airplanes. Tell me how you'll move container ships three football fields in length so people can eat. If you think EV cars and trucks today or in the next 15 years will change that? Watch Europe this winter when Russia holds the keys to heating fuel. Some people may die, and our dying right now. Maybe the Earth isn't going anywhere, WE ARE.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
397 Posts
Do three tours for our country in the Sandbox of Hell on this earth and then tell me your EV will clean the air? What we don't pump (which is the cleanest non-refined crude on the rock), other countries will and ship it. Germany is buying over 50% of its oil from Russia. That goes for the war in Ukraine, where we just sent $15 Billion. Maybe we could have used that for safer schools? Ukraine is no saint. Tell me there isn't some smoke rising in the air every day from that money, smoke from tanks, missiles, bombs, and maybe nuclear catastrophe. Sweeden, bless their no sides' hearts, is buying oil and gas from Russia. $9.50 a gallon to fuel up there. The oil still comes out of the same rock, but US crude is highly refined, and our natural crude is way less polluting than Russia or the Middle East. We only stop buying this year from Russia. Germany and most of Europe are buying from Russia today! Tell me, where is your endpoint? When do Russia, India, and China stop using oil? They are only hitting their industrial phase now, the world doesn't revolve around the United States. China and India buy used Toyotas and Hondas by the container ship load weekly. But if they burn in some other country, will we stop them? They have over 3 billion people, and we have 350 Million; will you set our values on those nations? I've seen raw sewage pour into the ocean for over 20 years across the sandbox; that's how far they are behind. Get out and see the real world, not a beach for a week; your mind will change, and not everyone plays by our rules. No doubt global warming is happening; the question is, does just the United States and Europe think they are going to reverse trends? Tell me how to move militaries and protect lives. Tell me how we are going to fly airplanes. Tell me how you'll move container ships three football fields in length so people can eat. If you think EV cars and trucks today or in the next 15 years will change that? Watch Europe this winter when Russia holds the keys to heating fuel. Some people may die, and our dying right now. Maybe the Earth isn't going anywhere, WE ARE.
So, I also did my time in the sandbox and thank you for your service as well. Not sure your point about US oil being the best. But I can tell you I’m in Alaska all the crude oil we produce leaves here on ships, most if it bound for Asia, none stays here as we do not have any refineries. And our fuel brought into Alaska almost all comes from Asia…

One of the biggest personal reason I own my teslas (and a Rivian fits this as well) is they are the most American made vehicle you can buy and are NOT dependent on foreign oil. I’ll add I charge entirely on solar ~75% of the year.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
So, I also did my time in the sandbox and thank you for your service as well. Not sure your point about US oil being the best. But I can tell you I'm in Alask. Alll the crude oil we produce leaves here on ships, most if it bound for Asia, none stays here as we do not have any refineries. And our fuel brought into Alaska almost all comes from Asia…

One of the biggest personal reason I own my teslas (and a Rivian fits this as well) is they are the most American made vehicle you can buy and are NOT dependent on foreign oil. I'll add I charge entirely on solar ~75% of the year.
Thanks for your service also; it was a career for me,; here is information on oil, most people do not know we have the cleanest crude in the world, yet make packs with Paris to stop drilling and import far more toxic crude. Plus, what that has done to the economy and standard of life for millions will prevent many from ever having the funds to afford EV's for a long time.


West Texas is not some of the best to use, and we will need some of it for a long time. I have an R1S on order for a few years. It's for my wife, not me, downsizing from a 2011 Navigator. I don't need the size of kids all grown and out of college on their own for several years but served me like a champ for ten years at 10K miles a year (built in Kentucky). Everyone is entitled to spend their money as they wish; they work for it, but if I were young, or even in my 40's, as I pointed out to the starter of the thread, I wouldn't be "obligated" to spend $100K on a pick-up and pay $500-$700 payments for six years to "set an example" to my grandchildren. I don't know the person; maybe he has millions in his twenties; it's all an individual call. As we know, life can be very short, and I doubt if we will save the planet with 100K EVs currently for sale. Sure it's a start, but the time we served showed us that our will or desire for freedom is not imposed easily on other countries. When I saw what happened a year ago, it almost made me sick to leave all that equipment and that base and innocent people in harm's way for life and their families in a flash.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Umm, no. The science is conclusive and compelling that human activity within the past 100 years or so has led to a drastic increase in atmospheric greenhouse gases, and that those gases directly contribute to the overall warming of the Earth through known mechanisms. You seem to be conflating this issue with the understanding of the natural climate cycles (ice ages etc.) whose mechanisms are poorly understood because they are a result of extremely complicated interactions between mathematically complex and chaotic systems. But we do have ample data for the level of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere over the past million or so years and the current period of man-made warming far exceeds the natural changes, in terms of the magnitude of the greenhouse gas concentration and the extremely short time period over which it has changed. Natural changes occur over tens of thousands of years, not over a few decades.

And BTW, Ducks Unlimited, which you cite as a paragon of "conservative" environmentalism, fully believes in climate change. See Climate Change and Waterfowl

The rest of your post is political name-calling that has no place in these forums. You start by attaching what you consider to be epithets to those you disagree with, then use those names to wrongly extrapolate and to inaccurately attribute other positions and beliefs to "them". I am a scientist. I am not a "leftist". Just because science contradicts some of your cherished social beliefs does not mean you can infer anything else about the political positions or social behavior of people who accept the science. This is a scientific issue not a political one (except to those who try to use the issue as a way to divide people).

Bottom line though is that we all have an obligation to do what we can. Buying an EV is part of that. No one has ever claimed EVs are the solution to all the world's problems, but we know that continuing down our present path is unsustainable, and buying an ICE vehicle when you could buy an EV instead (and not everyone can) is making the problem worse, not better. There is no excuse for continuing to contribute to the known problems, when it is possible for you to help improve things. And even less excuse for spending endless time trying to defend and justify the status quo of a petroleum based economy. It is not hypocritical at all to do what we can, even if we can't do everything. However is IS hypocritical to blame everyone else then refuse to contribute to the solution because by your logic you can't make a difference.
"science" as you call it doesn't actually support your climate change narrative no where near as much as you claim it does. There isn't one single model that's accurately predicted any human involvement. What people like you do is conflate the obvious, like dumping toxic chemicals in a river is bad, with all sorts of unproven nonsense. The people using this issue to divide people are all on the left side of the spectrum. EV's aren't really the answer to climate change because the way it's presented it isn't real anyways. Also it's funny that I'm the one supposedly pushing an agenda when it's people like you running off about climate change in a car forum. I'm not the first person to bring that up in here. Perhaps if you learned to respect the beliefs of others they would respect yours as well. Until then you give what you get.
 

·
Super Moderator
2015 Tesla Model S 85D, 2019 Toyota 4Runner TRD OffRoad
Joined
·
615 Posts
Enough of the left/crap folks. Get it back on the rails or the thread is getting locked.
 
21 - 40 of 67 Posts
Top