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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I am as pissed about what happened as anyone but moving on, What do we know about the 2 motor. "The specs are right on par or better than the offerings from BMW, GM, Ford, Tesla and anyone. According to CNET article The dual-motor trucks will make more than 600 hp and 600 pound-feet of torque and hit 60 mph in as little as 4 seconds still crazy fast. The dual-motor setup has torque vectoring capabilities. Rivian Launches 600-HP Dual-Motor R1S and R1T, Raises Quad-Motor Pricing

The dual-motor Cybertruck will reportedly reach 60 mph in just 4.5 ticks and have a top speed of 120 mph. Those looking for the ultimate performance will appreciate the three-motor model, which Tesla says will essentially teleport from zero to 60 mph in 2.9 seconds (!) with a top speed of 130 mph. Tesla has pulled the pricing off the market so we will see where they price it.

I wish that Rivian would put out details about this new powertrain as it may be great. It may be a very advanced system with their own designed motors. Lots of mistakes have been recently made but time to move on and get back to promoting their products. I am guessing that by 2025 80% of all the R1s/t sold will be 2 motor.
 

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The dual-motor setup has torque vectoring capabilities.
Unless Rivian is using a mechanical system (like Acura SH-AWD) I don't see how they'd get torque vectoring with the dual-motor setup. I would be surprised if they went that route, as it is additional complexity and cost and at that point they've already engineered quad motors.
 

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I just spent a fair amount of time on-line with Rivian CS today asking about the dual-motor configuration. Bottom line is that Rivian hasn't released any relevant information to the reps, so they could tell me almost nothing the about the changes. At least I hope this is the case; if Rivian doesn't actually have any information on this subject, the company is in deep trouble.

I specifically asked about the range and battery packs for the dual-motor vehicles. The rep could only say that "the battery with more range available for the R1S is the Large pack It is available with both the Dual-Motor and the Quad-Motor". I clarified that the reference was to the existing 135Kwh pack. The rep indicated that the range for the dual-motor with a 135Kwh battery pack was the same as for the quad-motor.

That almost certainly cannot be the case, but it was clear that Rivian had not provided any relevant info to their reps on that subject, so I did not press any further.

If Rivian does indeed plan to fit the dual-motor variants with the LR 135Kwh battery pack, I would expect that the range would be greater than the 315 miles for the quad-motor vehicles. How much greater is anyone's guess at this point, as is the delivery timing (another topic I inquired about for which the reps had no info).
 

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IMHO the dual motor is currently vaporware and wishful thinking that Rivian used to attempt to distract from the original price increase. I don't doubt that they could design and manufacture a dual motor and likely will at some point in the future, but I feel that they aren't currently giving it a second thought and that is why no further details have been released.
 

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If Rivian has not patented it, it probably only exists on the back of a napkin shoved in someone's desk draw. The gave themselves almost three full years to come up with an electric motor, that is not rocket science (the other guy's company does that ;)) and should be attainable without additional delays even if they start from zero today.
 

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MOTORTREND's take on the new motor: "As we long suspected, Rivian-built dual-motor variants are now slated to join the R1 lineup. Available starting in 2024, these new Rivian designed, engineered, and built motors (one installed at each axle) are said to be good for over 600 hp and 600 lb-ft of torque, and Rivian promises a 4.0-second 0-60 mph time, making the dual motor R1T about a second slower to 60 mph than the quickest four-motor R1T we've tested. Current quad-motor Rivians produce 835 hp and 908 lb-ft of torque.
Rivian also says that its new motors are simpler, lighter, and cheaper to build than the supplier-sourced motors on today's R1S and R1T.

The California-based automaker isn't publicly committing to utilizing its new motors on the quad-motor R1S and R1T, but sources at the company have told us that Rivian is currently hard at work on a quad-motor R1X super SUV that makes 1,200 hp and 1,200 lb-ft. We're not math experts, but we're fairly certain that if you put four of Rivian's new motors together, the output would add up to 1,200 ponies and pound-feet.

We suspect that in addition to the R1X, a detuned quad-motor R1S and R1T featuring the new motors is in the cards given CEO RJ Scaringe's desire to bring core competencies in-house.
"
 

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I just spent a fair amount of time on-line with Rivian CS today asking about the dual-motor configuration. Bottom line is that Rivian hasn't released any relevant information to the reps, so they could tell me almost nothing the about the changes. At least I hope this is the case; if Rivian doesn't actually have any information on this subject, the company is in deep trouble.

I specifically asked about the range and battery packs for the dual-motor vehicles. The rep could only say that "the battery with more range available for the R1S is the Large pack It is available with both the Dual-Motor and the Quad-Motor". I clarified that the reference was to the existing 135Kwh pack. The rep indicated that the range for the dual-motor with a 135Kwh battery pack was the same as for the quad-motor.

That almost certainly cannot be the case, but it was clear that Rivian had not provided any relevant info to their reps on that subject, so I did not press any further.

If Rivian does indeed plan to fit the dual-motor variants with the LR battery 135Kwh battery pack, I would expect that the range would be greater than the 315 miles for the quad-motor vehicles. How much greater is anyone's guess at this point, as is the delivery timing (another topic I inquired about for which the reps had no info).
I feel like I noticed the 'estimated range' change to 515 KM from 480KM ( I'm Canadian so my configuration is in KM) when I had the dual motor configuration vs quad. I have not checked to confirm yet..
 

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@eherlihy posted this is a different thread: Rivian Announces Dual Motor And Smaller Battery Options; Hefty Price Increases

It's clearly not vaporware.

One of the goals of the skateboard design was to be able to serve as a platform for alternative configurations - a two-motor design is something they clearly planned for and have been working on for many years. As it appears that the vast majority of the truck, including the battery pack, will stay the same, substitution of the motors and the accompanying software is something that can reasonably be done on the timescale they've indicated.

The manufacturing process is what is holding Rivian back right now, but the new 2-motor truck is essentially the same truck, and the manufacturing process should be essentially the same. Bringing production of the motors in-house rather than relying on an external supplier could also help with supply chain issues, and perhaps we'll also see a more powerful Rivian-designed motor for the quad motor configuration in the future.

In fact, now that I think about it, the EDV is a two-motor design - perhaps these are the same motors being used for the van?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
About EDV "Our industry-first quad-motor system, launching in our R1T and R1S, enables extremely precise performance and torque control in on- and off-road environments. Four independent motors work together to deliver over 800 horsepower and over 900 pound-feet of torque.
In the future, we intend to offer more drive system options, such as dual- or tri-motor all-wheel drive as well as higher performance quad-motor configurations.
The EDVs leverage the same electric drive system components as our R1 vehicles, launching with a dual-motor front-wheel drive configuration. We plan for our commercial vehicles to be configurable with single-motor front-wheel drive or dual-motor all-wheel drive."
See also
rivian focus amazon van Rivian Focuses On Amazon Delivery Van Over R1T Electric Truck

rivian amazon van prototype spotted Rivian-Amazon Delivery Van Prototype Spotted In The Wild
Grey Wood Font Twig Electric blue



https://insideevs.com/info/team/mark-kane/
 

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@eherlihy posted this is a different thread: Rivian Announces Dual Motor And Smaller Battery Options; Hefty Price Increases

It's clearly not vaporware.

One of the goals of the skateboard design was to be able to serve as a platform for alternative configurations - a two-motor design is something they clearly planned for and have been working on for many years. As it appears that the vast majority of the truck, including the battery pack, will stay the same, substitution of the motors and the accompanying software is something that can reasonably be done on the timescale they've indicated.

The manufacturing process is what is holding Rivian back right now, but the new 2-motor truck is essentially the same truck, and the manufacturing process should be essentially the same. Bringing production of the motors in-house rather than relying on an external supplier could also help with supply chain issues, and perhaps we'll also see a more powerful Rivian-designed motor for the quad motor configuration in the future.

In fact, now that I think about it, the EDV is a two-motor design - perhaps these are the same motors being used for the van?
We can and should hope that the motors for the EDV and the new R1X models are the same. What is a sure bet however, is that incorporating the new motors into the R1 production line will be difficult and troublesome.

It's a common misconception with respect to manufacturing, that incorporating what most consider minor changes, such as the substitution of two motors for four, is relatively easy. In fact, any change, even something as small as a larger battery pack, will almost certainly be very difficult and have a major impact on production.

The dual motor Rivian variant will require a number of adaptive changes in the skateboard platform (not necessarily easy, even assuming the engineering design of the skateboard anticipated the dual-motor) and may even require some changes in the suspension. There will certainly be wire harness changes, and perhaps even new buss architecture. On top of all of that, there are the necessary software and firmware changes. I don't see Rivian building quad and dual-motor vehicles on the same line, and am sure that the plan is for a new production line. That of course will drive substantial production and industrial engineering effort and take quite some time.

Frankly, I think Rivian will struggle mightily to get R1T numbers up to something approaching Full Rate Production (more than 1,000 per month) by next year, particularly if they really do introduce Max production in 2023. I don't see the R1S getting to FRP until 2024 and no longer see an R1S Longer Range (nee, Max) as ever being offered. As for the dual-motor variants, I really don't see them entering production for several years. Who knows, perhaps that is the plan for new Georgia plant.
 

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I feel like I noticed the 'estimated range' change to 515 KM from 480KM ( I'm Canadian so my configuration is in KM) when I had the dual motor configuration vs quad. I have not checked to confirm yet..
That represent a roughly 7% increase in range. The stated dual-motor range with the Large battery pack on the US Rivian website is 320+, less than a 2% increase.

The percentage discrepancy between the stated Km and miles range aside, the range gain for the dual-motor is far less than I would have expected. Perhaps someone with an electrical engineering background can weigh in on whether the stated figures seem reasonable, or if it is my expectation of a larger increase that is.
 

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That represent a roughly 7% increase in range. The stated dual-motor range with the Large battery pack on the US Rivian website is 320+, less than a 2% increase.

The percentage discrepancy between the stated Km and miles range aside, the range gain for the dual-motor is far less than I would have expected. Perhaps someone with an electrical engineering background can weigh in on whether the stated figures seem reasonable, or if it is my expectation of a larger increase that is.
I know all wheel drive Tesla does better than the rear wheel drive, it has been attributed to the additional regen with the extra motor.

For Rivian, the new motors have a lower power rating and are lighter, they are likely more efficient as well having been designed in house. I’m sure that is where the small gain is coming from.
 
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