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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
To those who have issues with people selling their Rivian, your anger is misguided. You are upset because someone has something you want and you cant have it. Yes that person might be asking an absurd dollar amount for it, but no one is forced to pay that amount. The market will dictate what is appropriate and what is not.
There are regular people who are not wealthy, that have preorders for a Rivian. They made that preorder years ago and then found themselves lucky enough to live near a service center and get an early delivery. Because of these circumstances, they find themselves in a unique position, Keep a vehicle they have been excited to own for 3 years or make enough money to change the trajectory of their families life.
However there are certain people who feel they need to stand in judgment of those people. Like you are some moral authority on when a person is allowed to do what’s best for their family. Well as my grandfather told me, “you can’t fault a person for trying to better themselves”.
So maybe everyone on here selling their preorder or vehicle isn’t greedy. Maybe they are in the position of owning something that is worth more than they paid. Sounds to me like they made a good investment, and had a little luck.
Regardless, these vehicles will sell and people will pay what they want to pay. However you will remain bitter, jealous and resentful. This mindset will ruin you, and ultimately you will be far less than you could have been.

Sincerely,
Sellout
 

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Soooooooo, your second post in this forum is to advertise and take advantage of people looking to buy an R1T? By any chance, are you a day trader? I bet you are probably going to claim the $7500 tax credit before you sell it too.

Wonder if you EVER really wanted to purchase the vehicle.
 

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Soooooooo, your second post in this forum is to advertise and take advantage of people looking to buy an R1T? By any chance, are you a day trader? I bet you are probably going to claim the $7500 tax credit before you sell it too.

Wonder if you EVER really wanted to purchase the vehicle.
This whole taking advantage of people thingy rings a bit thin. Nobody NEEDS to own a Rivian. Adults can make their own decision and if they wish to make an expensive purchase, that's on them.
 

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Seriously, people complaining about people who will sell a vehicle they own? You live in the wrong time and world if you feel that way. I can "maybe" understand later reservation holders having gripes about people selling a reservation, but to have any complaint about someone selling a vehicle they own......that's all on you. That's life. Get over it. I was fortunate to have early reservations on the Tesla Model 3. Had multiple offers from people to buy them and absolutely took advantage of WHAT PEOPLE OFFERED ME FOR SOMETHING I HAD. I didn't buy them with the intent to sell, but would have had to punch myself in the face if I didn't consider the offers I was receiving as I would have officially qualified as a complete idiot. Of course, I wasn't forced to sell them and if I truly wanted to keep them, I would have. But, we live in a free market world. Value is based on what someone is willing to pay. If you buy a house and property values increase 10% in 6 months, should you not sell that house because you feel bad for the prior owner? Or for the person who made the second highest offer and didn't get the house? If you are one that complains about it, then you should call Rivian and tell them you feel bad that they are going to lose money on your vehicle because they're honoring your original price point and tell them you'll send them a check for 20% of the sale to make it right. Anyone that complains needs to find more important things in life to focus on. You're making yourself miserable for no good reason. Life is challenging enough, don't contribute to those challenges unnecessarily.
 

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Ford has forbidden people from selling a Lightning for one full year after purchase - the dealer can sue you if you do. I don't know how that's legal, but I guess if they include that in your sales contract it might be possible to forbid that ...

I don't think anyone really cares if you sell your Rivian after you purchase it. As long as you do it legally, of course, paying the taxes and not taking the EV tax credits. The objectionable behavior is people hoarding reservations on speculation and reselling them for a premium. You don't "own" a reservation. This behavior would be like bots buying up concert tickets, preventing everyone else from buying them, then reselling at a premium. It's not fair to the performers, it's not fair to the attendees, it's just abusing the system for personal gain at the expense of others. And that's why it's something ticket resellers try to prevent.

I don't think that's really happening with Rivians - I think a small number of people no longer want to buy their reservation for valid reasons - already bought a car, don't have the money anymore, etc. I don't think there are a lot of people who had no intention from the beginning of buying a Rivian and just wanted to make a reservation on speculation. But if you allow transfers of pre-orders, you encourage that bad behavior, so the only way to prevent the speculation and hording is to forbid transfers. That way anyone who wants to back out can either just get their deposit refunded, OR go through with the purchase, pay their taxes, and do whatever they want with the vehicle after that (including immediately reselling it). It seems that for now Rivian is turning a blind eye to transfers, assuming they are being done for the best intentions, but reserving the right to forbid them if they detect a pattern of abuse.

In a capitalist society, it's perfectly acceptable for Rivian to forbid parasites from profiting on reselling reservations. Rivian has a vested interested in building a relationship with their customers. Enabling dealerships and speculators to get a cut of the profit undermines Rivian and drives customers away. I will say that one of the reasons why I am happy to purchase a Rivian is that I don't have to go through the painful process of trying to keep the dealership from cheating me. It is that up-front and honest pricing, where ALL have to pay the same amount, that is a refreshing change. If you just swap dealerships for speculators, then I would rather have dealerships.
 

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To those who have issues with people selling their Rivian, your anger is misguided
No one is angry at someone selling THEIR Rivian after they buy it and it is actually their Rivian.

The only issue I know of is people trying to sell a Rivian reservation which Rivian noted to all when we purchased our reservation, that is against rules we all agreed to, including Rivian.

13. Assignment

You may not assign your rights under these Terms without our express prior consent. Rivian may assign these Terms or your Preorder Fee in our discretion without your consent. Any assignment in violation of this Agreement will be null and void.

14. No Resellers; Discontinuation; Cancellation

Rivian and its affiliates may unilaterally cancel any Preorder that we believe has been made with the intent to resell the Vehicle or otherwise has been made in bad faith. Rivian may also cancel your Preorder if a vehicle, product, feature, or option is discontinued after you place your Preorder.
 

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I don't think anyone really cares if you sell your Rivian after you purchase it. As long as you do it legally, of course, paying the taxes and not taking the EV tax credits.
Once you've taken ownership of a new EV you can claim the federal tax credit. There is no federal tax credit for used EVs.
So whoever buys a Rivian from someone who actually purchased it cannot get the tax credit.
 

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No one is angry at someone selling THEIR Rivian after they buy it and it is actually their Rivian.
It's just scalping

The only issue I know of is people trying to sell a Rivian reservation which Rivian noted to all when we purchased our reservation, that is against rules we all agreed to, including Rivian.
Yeah selling preorders is not cool, I agree. Siht or get off the pot if you've placed a preorder.
 

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Once you've taken ownership of a new EV you can claim the federal tax credit. There is no federal tax credit for used EVs.
So whoever buys a Rivian from someone who actually purchased it cannot get the tax credit.
This is true but if you purchase the vehicle with intent to resell you are not eligible as well. It is spelled out in the program rules. There is no timeline specified but if you purchased for an extremely short period of time and were audited you may have an issue.
 

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Ford has forbidden people from selling a Lightning for one full year after purchase - the dealer can sue you if you do. I don't know how that's legal, but I guess if they include that in your sales contract, it might be possible to forbid that ...

I don't think anyone really cares if you sell your Rivian after you purchase it. As long as you do it legally, of course, paying the taxes and not taking the EV tax credits. The objectionable behavior is people hoarding reservations on speculation and reselling them for a premium. You don't "own" a reservation. This behavior would be like bots buying up concert tickets, preventing everyone else from buying them, then reselling at a premium. It's not fair to the performers, it's not fair to the attendees, it's just abusing the system for personal gain at the expense of others. And that's why it's something ticket resellers try to prevent.

I don't think that's really happening with Rivians - I think a small number of people no longer want to buy their reservation for valid reasons - already bought a car, don't have the money anymore, etc. I don't think there are a lot of people who had no intention from the beginning of buying a Rivian and just wanted to make a reservation on speculation. But if you allow transfers of pre-orders, you encourage that bad behavior, so the only way to prevent the speculation and hording is to forbid transfers. That way anyone who wants to back out can either just get their deposit refunded, OR go through with the purchase, pay their taxes, and do whatever they want with the vehicle after that (including immediately reselling it). It seems that for now Rivian is turning a blind eye to transfers, assuming they are being done for the best intentions, but reserving the right to forbid them if they detect a pattern of abuse.

In a capitalist society, it's perfectly acceptable for Rivian to forbid parasites from profiting on reselling reservations. Rivian has a vested interested in building a relationship with their customers. Enabling dealerships and speculators to get a cut of the profit undermines Rivian and drives customers away. I will say that one of the reasons why I am happy to purchase a Rivian is that I don't have to go through the painful process of trying to keep the dealership from cheating me. It is that up-front and honest pricing, where ALL have to pay the same amount, that is a refreshing change. If you just swap dealerships for speculators, then I would rather have dealerships.
Now, if you look at your $1000 down payment fine print, it is just a goodwill gesture; Rivian can still change price, time, etc., don't think you have locked it with a firm contract on anything. It DOES prevent you from suing Rivian on anything. Finally, force majeure today with everything that is happening gives a company plenty of "outs."
 

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This is true but if you purchase the vehicle with intent to resell you are not eligible as well.
This is 100% unenforceable. For all practical purposes, if you take ownership you can sell it the next day and claim the tax credit. And it's not against the spirit of the law. The law is intended to put as many EVs into circulation as possible. It doesn't matter if someone flips it.
 

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You are not supposed to take the tax credit if you are purchasing with the intent to immediately resell it. There, paper trail is important. If you list the vehicle for sale before you take delivery, that proves intent. But, if you purchase and there's no evidence that you intended to sell, via classifieds, forums, social media, etc, then there's no way to prove that you didn't buy the truck, decide you can't afford it or don't like it and chose to sell a week later. Unlikely the IRS will pursue any such cases as they are difficult to prove. But, if it started happening too regularly, then that would raise a red flag and they'd likely start investigating it more.

And I'm still on the fence about offering your reservation. Yes, Rivian states its against the rules. But, if you committed and placed a deposit 3 years ago, I can see where that would have some added value.
 

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It's just scalping
Not necessarily. Might not like it after they buy it. I work with people who are serial car buyers to the point of which car do I drive today. And with most EV's having reservations and long lead times, things happen during the year(s).

I've got three reservations, Rivian, F150EV and Silverado EV, all in 2024. Cars I've not seen or driven. Cars, other than Rivian, I don't know the final price. I want an EV truck that I can camp with and tow my boat. Putting in reservations is ONLY way I'll have a chance at seeing them 2024. That's why when mfgs don't honor their reservation, as Ford did with the F150, as Rivian might be allowing with the sale of reservations, it does get one a bit riled up. Hard enough without some integrity to the process.
 

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Ford has forbidden people from selling a Lightning for one full year after purchase - the dealer can sue you if you do
That is totally bogus. In fact, in many pro-consumer states, that kind of restraint of trade is against the law. Kind of like the signs "If we're negligent and you hurt yourself at our place, we are not liable". State law will determine that, not a printed sign.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Ford has forbidden people from selling a Lightning for one full year after purchase - the dealer can sue you if you do. I don't know how that's legal, but I guess if they include that in your sales contract it might be possible to forbid that ...

I don't think anyone really cares if you sell your Rivian after you purchase it. As long as you do it legally, of course, paying the taxes and not taking the EV tax credits. The objectionable behavior is people hoarding reservations on speculation and reselling them for a premium. You don't "own" a reservation. This behavior would be like bots buying up concert tickets, preventing everyone else from buying them, then reselling at a premium. It's not fair to the performers, it's not fair to the attendees, it's just abusing the system for personal gain at the expense of others. And that's why it's something ticket resellers try to prevent.

I don't think that's really happening with Rivians - I think a small number of people no longer want to buy their reservation for valid reasons - already bought a car, don't have the money anymore, etc. I don't think there are a lot of people who had no intention from the beginning of buying a Rivian and just wanted to make a reservation on speculation. But if you allow transfers of pre-orders, you encourage that bad behavior, so the only way to prevent the speculation and hording is to forbid transfers. That way anyone who wants to back out can either just get their deposit refunded, OR go through with the purchase, pay their taxes, and do whatever they want with the vehicle after that (including immediately reselling it). It seems that for now Rivian is turning a blind eye to transfers, assuming they are being done for the best intentions, but reserving the right to forbid them if they detect a pattern of abuse.

In a capitalist society, it's perfectly acceptable for Rivian to forbid parasites from profiting on reselling reservations. Rivian has a vested interested in building a relationship with their customers. Enabling dealerships and speculators to get a cut of the profit undermines Rivian and drives customers away. I will say that one of the reasons why I am happy to purchase a Rivian is that I don't have to go through the painful process of trying to keep the dealership from cheating me. It is that up-front and honest pricing, where ALL have to pay the same amount, that is a refreshing change. If you just swap dealerships for speculators, then I would rather have dealerships.
People do care if you sell your actual vehicle. This original post was about me selling my R1T that i am in possession of. All I got was hate.
 

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That is totally bogus. In fact, in many pro-consumer states, that kind of restraint of trade is against the law. Kind of like the signs "If we're negligent and you hurt yourself at our place, we are not liable". State law will determine that, not a printed sign.
I’ve heard of some dealers putting a lien on the vehicle for $1 which they remove after the year is up.
 

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That is totally bogus. In fact, in many pro-consumer states, that kind of restraint of trade is against the law. Kind of like the signs "If we're negligent and you hurt yourself at our place, we are not liable". State law will determine that, not a printed sign.
Exactly. Ford can't even get their dealerships not to charge Dealer Premiums on their vehicles. Dealers suing customers for reselling their cars? Please.
 
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