Lot to unpack there. Drive height is going to be the same between the quad and dual, so that should not really factor into the equation.

also understand 400 miles does not really mean 400 miles. I guess maybe in optimum weather, leaving with a full charge and a warm pack, and driving quite slowly, then maybe.
My experience with my quad has been that after 200-250 miles of real world driving I’m looking for a place to charge pretty quickly.

The modes on the quad are fun to play with, but other than screwing around I find myself mainly in normal mode 90% of the time.

The quad does have a longer warranty period as discussed in other threads, and the push of more HP is fun if that means anything to you. That said- even the dual is going to feel pretty fast compared to any ICE vehicle.

good luck with your decision- can’t really go wrong either way. Like deciding between Blantons single barrel, and Blantons straight from the barrel. You’ll be happy with either choice.

 

The largest considerations for me would be the warranty and price. If you’ve got pre March pricing, take the quad, 500$ cost difference. Warranty is also longer on the quad.

Chargers are being installed everywhere and will you really want to spend that extra ‘range’ (time) in the car while on a trip? like a cell phone, you’ll be near a plug every night, so day to day you won’t have a thought towards range.

The quad also is pretty enjoyable off on BLM lane/Forest service fire trails, light rocks. Be wary of large rocks with how easily the tie rods snap, like the new bronco.

We tow with ours, I use most modes but have it aligned at a specific height and with specific toe settings to alleviate tire wear. But we find ourselves at both ends of the suspension’s extremes fairly often.

issues with local service center employees aside, the vehicle is capable. Fragile pieces aplenty, but if you don’t expect much you can’t be let down. Just plan for these shortcomings and you’ll be fine.

 

I don't yet have my R1S, so my remarks are based on what I've read, not from what I experienced. Also, long post ahead. You've been warned

A bit of history may help you get a sense of my perspective. Way back when, Rivian teased that they would be offering Large and Max battery packs as options for both the R1S and the R1T. When the Rivian configurator went live however, the Max pack was only offered on the R1T. Also at the time, the Max was projected to have a capacity of 180 kWhW. There was only the quad motor variant; the dual was still quite a way off in the future.

I won't bore you with the detals, but when it became clear that the new Max would have a smaller capacity than was originally planned, I changed to an R1S Large. The SUV is a much better fit for us since we bring our two Welshies with us on most trips. We also tow a small teardrop - the reason for wanting the Max - but eventually decided to gamble that charging infrastructure would improve fairly quickly and that we'd be OK with the Large pack.

As a legacy reservation holder, I have preferential pricing, but really only for the QM variants. If I got the same pricing treatment for the dual motor however, I'd switch. While it's great to have the potential to get to 60 mph from a standing start in just over 3 seconds, I'd be fine with a more leisurely 4.5 secs. My off-roading consists of occasionally towing our T@B 320 for short distances on gravel or dirt roads, so don't need the quad for that either. I would remain with the Large pack however.

The Max has is said to be 149 wKh vs 135 kWh for the Large (nominal capacities). That capacity difference is not nothing, but I don't think it's worth an additional $10k. It becomes even harder to justify the Max premium since the charging network is improving relatively rapidly, if perphaps not as quickly was we'd like. One very positive charging development set to come in the very future is that Rivian owners will have access to the Tesla charging network. This will nearly double the number of chargers and go a long way to relieving range concerns, even when towing.

In sum, I think that dual motor is a better choice for the majority of potential Rivian owners. The quad does offer higher perfomance and more drive options, but these are nice-to-haves that few owners have need for and even fewer will actually use. As to Max vs Large battery pack, I don't think the Max is good value for money. If cost is not a concern however, then go with the Max.

Good luck with your decision, and let us know what you go with.

 

The 14kWh of pack size will be from 14miles(or less while towing) to 28-30mi (70mph highway cruising in a perfect situation), if real life (quad) consumption numbers are to be believed. Not sure that’s remotely worth the warranty trade off and potential value retention for a ‘no longer produced’ model when it comes time to sell at a later time.

 

The 14kWh of pack size will be from 14miles(or less while towing) to 28-30mi (70mph highway cruising in a perfect situation), if real life (quad) consumption numbers are to be believed.

I think that’s a big assumption. Car and Driver got about 70% of the listed range using. Quad/Large RIT on a 75mph track, but the Daily Mirror (I know) reported 105% on a 70mph track. A lot has been written out how range is reduced much more at higher speeds (I.e. the difference between 75mph and 80mph should theoretically be greater than the difference between 70 and 75). My guess is that there will always be some variability in those tests. Temperature can play a huge role in range and those companies never report the temperature in which the testing took place.

Also, it’s not that common to be able to drive at those speeds for 300 miles, so traffic will help you extend that with some regenerative braking along the way.

 

Just to throw this out there for you, but for an extra $5K you can get the Dual Performance motor with the Max battery. The DP motor adds Sport mode and Sand mode, plus ups the HP to 665.

One of the things that convinced me to go with the Max battery is that Rivian suggests keeping the battery between 20%-80%or 85% charged most of the time to extend the battery life. In other words, the more you push the limits of the Large battery, the quicker those limits diminish over time.

Also, if you’re worried about the warranty, you can extend the warranty with Fidelity. The pricing for a 10 year platinum warranty is about $3,900-$4,200 (I was also quoted $3,500 for 8 years).

 

This was what I did and I don't regret it. Performance Dual Motor with Max pack (but I still got the 20" off-road tires despite them being least efficient because they simply look awesome on this truck).

 

Play nice now boys! You know who you are . . .

 

I think the dual vs quad is a separate decision from large vs max pack. If you are doing nothing more than driving gravel roads to a trail head and most driving will be regular road travel then a dual should be fine, at least that is why I ordered the dual vs the quad. On the battery considerations, how often will you be towing a trailer ( i believe they added tow mode to all configurations) vs just driving distances vs being far from some type of charging infrastructure. If you are towing a lot, spending a lot of time in camp grounds far from any sort of charging infrastructure then going with the max battery for an extra 10k might make sense. Use A Better Route Planner to get a sense of where you will be driving and staying and the charging infrastructure along the way. I do a lot of boating, so the rule of thirds is key, 1/3 out, 1/3 back and 1/3 in reserve. Might not be as key driving as on the water but still a good rule

 

My general thoughts follow but keep in mind that my use case is a little different than yours. My R1S is used as a daily driver and I will take it for long trips although I have only taken it on one in seven months. I agree with kamster that the discussion about the number of motors v size of the battery are different other than you get more mpc with the fewer motors. First, if I had the option to get a Max pack, I would consider it but not at a $10k premium. I was a pre-order priced purchaser. Second, 99% of my charging will be at home. I have had it since the end of May and have not charged anywhere other than home other than at the Rivian chargers in San Antonio after a trip there from Houston. I charged twice there. I had enough to get from Houston to San Antonio on the 22" wheels driving between 65-85 mph most of the way there. I was NOT towing anything. With the Rivian Adventure Network getting larger and having other charging options available, I am less likely to consider a heavier, but larger battery pack for a premium.

Regarding number of motors, the quad motor setup is stupid fast for an 7,600 pound SUV. The 0-60 in three seconds flat is NOT hyperbole. If you do not need that (who really does), then I do not see the benefit in the quad motors unless you are on some kind of terrain that requires motors to independently power each wheel.

One last consideration - my mom is 81 and has a tough time getting into the vehicle even on kneel mode. She is also only 5 feet tall as is my mother-in-law. So, I purchased a little step stool for them. I ordered EVMaxx running board sliders, but have yet to receive them. So, I do not know you or wife's height, but if getting into higher vehicles is a problem, you probably need a solution to the step issue.

 

I just don't understand why anyone who does not tow regularly would get a max pack for $10K more! As I've said umpteen times the max pack does not mean faster charging because it's the same 400V architecture. In corner cases the max pack could possibly save you a charging stop.

To the OP, if you're 70 and want to explore national parks, you're probably retired and not really in a hurry, correct? How fast do you drive? You can save yourself the $10K for the max pack if you drive 72 mph instead of 75.6 mph on the freeway:

Relative battery capacities, large vs max pack: 135/149 = 0.906
Relative drag at 72 mph vs 75.6 mph: 72^2/75.6^2 = 0.907

 

Agreed. $10k for 14kWh of pack, seems like money could be spent elsewhere.

The latest out of spec video shows the max pack to be the worse option for roadtrip dcfc.

 

Well, I’m committed on the max, but it fits my use case (frequent round trips of 250-260 miles in a day mostly on freeways). If it was just for local use and the occasional road trip, I would probably have gone with the large pack.

I also tend to keep cars for 10+ years, so I’m trying to build in for some degradation and also summer heat issues.

 

In 115* summer, while towing near capacity, we experienced no ambient related issues. Only mismanagement of the vehicle’s thermals for regen, and in multiple temp ranges. 40-70deg coastal air and the R1S still limited regen, which while towing is a huge problem since (only) the brakes aren’t suited to all that weight.

 

Only

Getting close to committing to an R1S, and am trying to sort out whether it is worth decreasing the range to 321 miles to get the Quad motor that has all the drive modes, vs. getting the Dual motor with the Max pack &400 miles range and just 3 drive modes.

Can you set some aspect of the modes separately? Like height to the lowest point to make getting into the vehicle easier if needed, or for lower air resistance while travelling?

My wife & I are 70, plan to use the R1S for traveling long distance and for camping, visiting national parks. We are mostly going to be using off road abilities for getting to camp sites and trail heads. I wonder some if being more capable (ability to rock crawl if needed) is a safety capability.

So you Quad motor owners, wish you had the 400 mile range (does Conserve mode give you better than 321 mi range)? And you Dual motor owners, wish you had those extra drive modes?

 

If you can afford it, I would and did choose max pack. I’ve read all the posts about why the extra mileage doesn’t matter but if that were true, everyone would choose standard pack.
I personally don’t need quad motor stats but sweet spot for me was performance dual motor.
if you plan on keeping it a long time, as I do, I suspect the max pack is worth it if you can afford it.
You can’t go wrong And

 

I went through this decision 500000 times before I went with the quad motor large.

1. You can shut off two of the motors and get about 350-360 miles (in warmer weather) vs. the 390 in the max pack. It's not that big of a deal, honestly.
2. You lose features in the max pack with dual vs. quad...
3. Range doesn't really matter unless you're driving hours at a time, all the time.
4. I have no hesitation with driving the Rivian anywhere...
5. Battery degradation is rumor at this point in time. We have a Mach-E with the larger battery and over 55,000 miles on it. When we got it, during the summer, it'd go up to 320 miles, even though the top range was 270. It still goes to 316 as of this past summer....so, the decrease is negligible...plus, nobody should buy a car and base it on how much the battery may or may not lose over the next few years. Buy what you want and use it and enjoy it.

 

Agree no wrong decision. Think this should be made with specifics in mind.
We travel between mid Atlantic and New England with some frequency. Also occasional 1000m wanders with no firm destination in mind. When doing so we are a couple so swap out who is driving, stretch our legs as and usually the bride needs a pee break. So far the large has been fine with that use pattern. Often get a charge bump before necessary. Those are very quick as acceptance rate is high. Even when traveling try to avoid going to 100%. The more pressing issue has been charger deserts. They exist in Maine, north NH, south coastal VA. Doesn’t matter large or max if no charger is available. So deviating to get a full charge before a destination we will stay at is the more pressing issue. However those side trips have caused exploration and have been fun.
Went with a dual and off road package. In the past have wrecked underbody components of 4x4s and SUVs with road debris. Both on tarmac (retreads and stuff fallen off other vehicles you couldn’t dodge but also stuff kicked up on dirt roads, and double tract. The 20”s haven’t let us down so far but we don’t do rock crawling. Haven’t needed the quad with our use pattern. Haven’t found the 20”s noisy. So very happy with 20”s and dual. We do tow small boats. Both the trailers and boats are lower than the rear tailgate. Range impact has been modest. Towing under 2000lbs. Find the issue has been getting in and out of charging stations. Not being drive through hard to not obstruct other spots or vehicles moving in the parking lot. Think it’s turbulence and increased air resistance that produces much of the drag when towing. So low and light tows have much less effect. Our small boat tows have been RI to MA. Have taken to launching the dinghy, parking the trailer briefly and go getting a charge. Think EVs will have issues towing in many areas because how charging stations are set up more than range issues. Some are very tight around here. Gas stations are drive through. Charging stations aren’t. So use an ICE when towing .

 

You always want the maximum range you can afford. There's no feature of the Quad motor that makes up for the 80 miles of range. Per OutOfSpec Motoring, the Dual Motor is more capable than the Quad Motor in off roading so hard to see if Quad Motor has any advantage. Less capable, less range, more money, more weight.

 

it's not 80 miles...more like 40, at most. Conserve mode only uses dual motor so you can get around 350 miles on it. There is obviously no conserve mode in a dual motor. I use all purpose, though. The extra drive modes are nice and are functional. The quad does give you more but it's likely the dual motor is fine for most people. The quad is just an upgrade that many will feel they don't need. I had a denali with a 6.2L engine vs. the 5.whatever...sure, it was much faster and punchier and more expensive. However, they'd both get you to where you're going unless your towing payload was absurd...to each their own.

As far as off-roading goes, no question a motor over each tire is advantageous...you have a ton more power with a quad motor, but, I don't know many using a 90k truck to ride in the Moab, anyway. For most, this vehicle is staying on the road. For that matter, not many are drag racing so the 0-60 in 3 seconds vs. 4.5 is not an issue for most people. I do love the acceleration, though. It's incredible! No need for a sports car as this is faster than most even costing $200,000.

I deliberated this for a while and went with the quad motor. It's all about range...true and false. The quad, getting near 350 miles, is not shabby and the extra features more than make up for the range loss and extra cost, imho. It's like a Mercedes S vs. an E or C. They're all nice but the S is the one people would want if they could get it. The additional cost is negligible if you amortize it over 8-10 years...

Back to basics though...no matter what someone goes with, they're gonna like the Rivian and have a lot of fun with it. Now they need a tri motor just to make things even that much more complicated...lol...

 

Getting close to committing to an R1S, and am trying to sort out whether it is worth decreasing the range to 321 miles to get the Quad motor that has all the drive modes, vs. getting the Dual motor with the Max pack &400 miles range and just 3 drive modes.

Can you set some aspect of the modes separately? Like height to the lowest point to make getting into the vehicle easier if needed, or for lower air resistance while travelling?

My wife & I are 70, plan to use the R1S for traveling long distance and for camping, visiting national parks. We are mostly going to be using off road abilities for getting to camp sites and trail heads. I wonder some if being more capable (ability to rock crawl if needed) is a safety capability.

So you Quad motor owners, wish you had the 400 mile range (does Conserve mode give you better than 321 mi range)? And you Dual motor owners, wish you had those extra drive modes?

As per "N," our 4 motor large pack R1S, in CONSERVE mode is good for 200-250 miles. Haven't measured in 4WD, but much less!

 

Large pack dual motor.

 

New owner of R1T with Performance Dual Motor and Max Pack. I came out of an Audi SQ8 which was a great deal of fun to drive. While I loved driving the R1T Quad motor, the Performance Dual Motor is still far more powerful and capable than anything I've owned and since I don't plan to do any extreme rock crawling, and the power/fun is ample, it became more about range for me. The drive modes it does have include everything I need for it to be safe. All that said, I hope you'll love whichever one you choose and wish you many fun adventures in it!

 

Getting close to committing to an R1S, and am trying to sort out whether it is worth decreasing the range to 321 miles to get the Quad motor that has all the drive modes, vs. getting the Dual motor with the Max pack &400 miles range and just 3 drive modes.

Can you set some aspect of the modes separately? Like height to the lowest point to make getting into the vehicle easier if needed, or for lower air resistance while travelling?

My wife & I are 70, plan to use the R1S for traveling long distance and for camping, visiting national parks. We are mostly going to be using off road abilities for getting to camp sites and trail heads. I wonder some if being more capable (ability to rock crawl if needed) is a safety capability.

So you Quad motor owners, wish you had the 400 mile range (does Conserve mode give you better than 321 mi range)? And you Dual motor owners, wish you had those extra drive modes?

You will never get 400 miles out of the Max Pack. A recent test showed an extra 32 miles for the extra cost. Quad motor all the way for me.

 

I get 303 miles with my quad motor in Conserve mode. But, that really does not mean 303 miles when driving in cold/elevation. I would have purchased the max pack if it was offered...probably could have made to my cabin without stopping for a 20 minute charge. Essentially conserve mode seems to add 10% in additional miles versus all purpose.

 

The max pack adds about 30 miles of real world range for $5000. A waste of money.

 

I just don't understand why anyone who does not tow regularly would get a max pack for $10K more!

Those extra 79 miles (R1S Quad/Large 321 miles, Dual/Max 400 miles) can mean a LOT in summer when you can reach less crowded chargers. It can mean a LOT in Winter when range is cut to 50% by snow and ice. It can mean a LOT 10 years down the line when battery degrades to 320 miles vs. 241 and then just 75% of that for day to day.

So lots of good reasons for the extra 79 miles.

 

Those of us that tow aren’t falling for that dog and pony show. 1mi/1kWh. When they said the max pack could fit into the r1s frame rails, everyone had to know it wasn’t any measurable capacity increase.

People are flogging tesla for the range extender, but rivian called +14kWh ‘max pack’ and charged how much for it? 😂
Then went on a PR campaign with out of spec to promote the dual motors. I mean, how else are we explaining service mode access and any r1 they want? It’s been proven they get really mad at YouTubers that don’t promote the brand/ignore the short comings.

 

The OP is looking to travel distances, visit national parks and possibly be away from readily accessible charging. They did not say if they plan to do any back country driving, but I suspect not. If that is their use case, then the dual motor / max pack is most likely their best option for range. If there is a concern about some back country driving or less than ideal roads, the performance dual / max pack might be their best option. It doesn't come down to drive modes really unless they plan to enter rally races or drive up the local dunes, it comes down to what conditions they might encounter where the standard dual motors would not provide the ability to continue the journey. I suggest given their use case they look at ABRP and see the what a typical trip for them would be, are they on a slow journey where there is plenty of charging along the way. The other consideration is will these plans be the norm or will they be an occasional once a year thing, only the OP can know for sure.

Everyone's use cases are different, will the R1S be a daily driver charging at home 90%of the time, that is a way different use case then log distance daily drives or long distance travel in the EV.

 

i have the quad motor and love it. great in snow and great in hills while towing. That said, given your use case i would for sure go dual motor and big battery pack. more miles always better if you are doing road trips.

 

more miles always better if you are doing road trips.

not true